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  #1  
Old 07-20-2009, 05:48 PM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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Originally Posted by Imus View Post
At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?
Didn't Princeton (and a couple other Ivies) match Harvard's decision to essentially offer full rides or incredible grant aid to every student? I think it did.

ETA: Princeton's financial aid packages basically eliminates financial barriers to entry: http://www.princeton.edu/admission/f...who_qualifies/
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Last edited by PeppyGPhiB; 07-20-2009 at 05:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2009, 02:07 PM
Imus Imus is offline
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Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB View Post
Didn't Princeton (and a couple other Ivies) match Harvard's decision to essentially offer full rides or incredible grant aid to every student? I think it did.

ETA: Princeton's financial aid packages basically eliminates financial barriers to entry: http://www.princeton.edu/admission/f...who_qualifies/

Harvard? There is a model for diversity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/ed...FFI.final.html


Is 1/3 of 8%, considered diversity?

Last edited by Imus; 07-21-2009 at 02:10 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-21-2009, 02:37 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Originally Posted by Imus View Post
Harvard? There is a model for diversity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/ed...FFI.final.html


Is 1/3 of 8%, considered diversity?
The thing is, that's becoming the case regardless of how selective the school is. I read somewhere years ago that the majority of college freshmen identifying as "Black" are West Indian or African and not African-American. My sister, who attended UF, said that there were far more Caribbean and African students there than kids like us, who could trace their ancestry in the US at least 5-6 generations. So, while Harvard is an easy target for so many reasons, you've got the gun pointed in the wrong direction, bucko.

But, I don't see what that has to do with Princeton's socioeconomic diversity, which is something that the other 7 Ivies and their competitiors are working hard to improve.

Last edited by Munchkin03; 07-21-2009 at 02:40 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-21-2009, 03:18 PM
Imus Imus is offline
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Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
The thing is, that's becoming the case regardless of how selective the school is. I read somewhere years ago that the majority of college freshmen identifying as "Black" are West Indian or African and not African-American. My sister, who attended UF, said that there were far more Caribbean and African students there than kids like us, who could trace their ancestry in the US at least 5-6 generations. So, while Harvard is an easy target for so many reasons, you've got the gun pointed in the wrong direction, bucko.

But, I don't see what that has to do with Princeton's socioeconomic diversity, which is something that the other 7 Ivies and their competitiors are working hard to improve.

Princton is not much different than Harvard, bucko.


I have been to Princeton many times. I don't see too many blacks on campus. The minorities on campus are mostly Asian or Indian.
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2009, 03:25 PM
littleowl33 littleowl33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Imus View Post
Princton is not much different than Harvard, bucko.

I have been to Princeton many times. I don't see too many blacks on campus. The minorities on campus are mostly Asian or Indian.
Ok, I'm lost. What does the racial diversity of the student body have to do with Greek Life at Princeton?
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  #6  
Old 07-21-2009, 03:49 PM
Imus Imus is offline
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Originally Posted by littleowl33 View Post
Ok, I'm lost. What does the racial diversity of the student body have to do with Greek Life at Princeton?

If the student body is not diverse then it is not likely that campus organizations such as eating clubs or greeks will be diverse. It is relevant because the President specifically criticized the greeks for being exclusive.
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  #7  
Old 07-21-2009, 04:57 PM
littleowl33 littleowl33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Imus View Post
If the student body is not diverse then it is not likely that campus organizations such as eating clubs or greeks will be diverse. It is relevant because the President specifically criticized the greeks for being exclusive.
Here I assume by "diverse", you're referring to African-American students, not Asian or South Asian/Indian students. My University, Johns Hopkins, has pretty similar diversity statistics:

Caucasian: 47%
Asian/Pacific Islander: 24%
African-American/Black: 7%
Hispanic/Latino-Latina: 7%
Native American: 1%
Other: 7%
International: 7%
(apply.jhu.edu)

And as referenced in the earlier article, Princeton has 8% Black students, 1/3 of which are considered African-American, not African immigrants. I don't know how many of the black Hopkins students are African-American as opposed to African.

Back on track. I don't know what percentage of JHU Greeks are black, but it is not a huge number. In the fraternities, it is probably similar to 7%. In the NPC sororities, it is less than 7%. I'll use my sorority as a pretty typical example. My sorority had 85 members this spring, of which 2 identified themselves as black. One was from America but (I believe) her parents were Jamaican, and one was African-American, Hispanic and Chinese. If we're looking at other minorities, we had 5 South Asian/Indian women and 9 Asian women. That breaks down to 2.3% black, 5.8% South Asian/Indian and 10.5% Asian.

That is less diverse than the general diversity statistics for the University, but probably very similar to the diversity stats for the women who went through recruitment. We certainly welcome diversity in our sororities, and I have heard sorority women say that they wish their group was more diverse. There is absolutely no prejudice against minority women going through recruitment, and I would go as far to say that they might have an easier time getting a bid because groups want to become more diverse. (As a side note - is that racist against the white students? Who knows. )

I don't know why fewer minority women go through recruitment. There are a few groups specifically for minority students, but they're small. Last semester Sigma Omicron Pi and alpha Kappa Delta Phi (the two "Asian-Interest" sororities on campus) had only 31 sisters combined - and some of those women were Caucasian or African-American. The only Latina sorority, Lambda Pi Chi, had only 5 members. The only African-American fraternity, Alpha Phi Alpha, had only 5 members. The University used to have chapters of Delta Sigma Theta, Sigma Gamma Rho and Alpha Kappa Alpha , but they are no longer recognized - they chose to give up University recognition in order to recruit outside the student body because they couldn't sustain their numbers. I don't know how many members they have now, but it is not many. In Spring 2008, the last semester they were recognized, the three had only 18 sisters combined. Delta Xi Phi, JHU's only multicultural sorority, had 29 members this Spring, over half of whom I know to be Caucasian (and the rest mostly Asian).

So - a lot of unanswered questions. Even GLOs created specifically for members of certain enthnic groups fall far short of attracting the number of women they should, given how represented those minorities are at the University. Heck, white students represent less than half of the student body at JHU, but the majority of the Greek women are white.

I don't know why this is, but given that our diversity stats and campus culture are pretty similar to Princeton's, I would hazard to guess that they're in a similar situation.

Maybe someone else will have better insight on the reasons why this happens.

ETA: This probably should be in a different thread... it's not really what we were discussing in the first place. But relating it back to the point: I don't think Greek Life is exclusionary to certain ethnic groups. Though minorities are underrepresented in the sororities at my school, it is probably because they also tend not to go through recruitment. Those who do almost always seem to be sought after and placed since the sororities seem to actively seek to become more diverse. If there were a large number of minority women rushing and not being placed/getting heavy cuts, I would see more of an issue.

Last edited by littleowl33; 07-21-2009 at 07:27 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-21-2009, 04:24 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Originally Posted by Imus View Post
Princton is not much different than Harvard, bucko.


I have been to Princeton many times. I don't see too many blacks on campus. The minorities on campus are mostly Asian or Indian.
What's your point? We weren't talking about the number of blacks on campus.
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  #9  
Old 07-21-2009, 07:04 PM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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Originally Posted by Imus View Post
Harvard? There is a model for diversity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/ed...FFI.final.html


Is 1/3 of 8%, considered diversity?
Diversity means more than just blacks and whites. If a campus was half white and half black, I would say that that is NOT diverse. Asians, Hispanics, international students contribute a lot to diversity, too. But really I was addressing the financial diversity of the student body, which only sometimes has racial correlations. I haven't seen the statistics, but I bet the majority of financial aid students at the Ivies are white.

Also, you should try finding an article more recent than 2004. I believe the more generous financial aid policies began after 2004.
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