Old South - Page 2

MysticCat · #16 05-15-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

Which is pretty par for the course for many 18-22 year old men

LOL. I remember all too well.

greektke · #17 05-15-2009, 04:08 PM

I personally like the idea that KA does this tradition. I know it must be a fun time for them, and probably something they look forward to! As other people have said it didn't seem as if the KA's were trying to upset the AKA's and as an AKA said in the article, they did NOTHING racist. I don't see why a "tradition" is becoming such a major ordeal. If people are so offended though, even after KA made a public apology, maybe what they should do is stop having a parade, but keep up with the rest of the tradition, such as UGA did. These guys (and their dates) are not trying to upset people, they are just trying to have a good time and celebrate tradition, as well as celebrate their founding fathers who may have fought in this war.

MysticCat · #18 05-15-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greektke

. . . as an AKA said in the article, they did NOTHING racist.

That's not what she said. She said they didn't think they were trying to be racist. There's a difference. Specifically, she said, "I don't think they understood the broader implications of what they were doing."

I agree that it sounds like a good time. But seriously, a gentleman doesn't just avoid trying to upset people. A gentleman avoids doing anything that he can reasonably anticipate will offend others, because a gentlemen considers the feelings of others to be as important as his own.

Sometimes traditions need to change or adapt. Nothing new there. Figure out how to have a good time, honor the best of your traditions, and avoid unnecessary offense, that's all.

PeppyGPhiB · #19 05-15-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greektke

I don't see why a "tradition" is becoming such a major ordeal. If people are so offended though, even after KA made a public apology, maybe what they should do is stop having a parade, but keep up with the rest of the tradition, such as UGA did. These guys (and their dates) are not trying to upset people, they are just trying to have a good time and celebrate tradition, as well as celebrate their founding fathers who may have fought in this war.

Slavery was a tradition, too. Not all traditions are OK.

Little32 · #20 05-15-2009, 06:35 PM

You all are giving these guys too little credit. I am pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing.

MysticCat · #21 05-15-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little32

You all are giving these guys too little credit. I am pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing.

Eh. The people who were actually there seem to think otherwise and to be giving them the benefit of the doubt -- at least they are quoted doing so. Absent anything indicating the contrary, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, too.

golfer11 · #22 05-15-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little32

You all are giving these guys too little credit. I am pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing.

This isn't true at all. I go to Alabama and was around when this actually happened. The aka house is located on soroity row and the ka's come down soroity row to pick up their dates who stand in front of their respective houses. The parade was so big this year that they couldn't move their trucks. This is an issue that the aka's blew WAY out of proportion. Nothing was said, it was just people at the wrong place and the wrong time.

SWTXBelle · #23 05-15-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little32

You all are giving these guys too little credit. I am pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing.

Yes, they were picking up their dates. I'm with MC - the story as reported doesn't indicate any ill-will on the part of the KAs. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

MysticCat · #24 05-15-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer11

This isn't true at all. I go to Alabama and was around when this actually happened. The aka house is located on soroity row and the ka's come down soroity row to pick up their dates who stand in front of their respective houses. The parade was so big this year that they couldn't move their trucks. This is an issue that the aka's blew WAY out of proportion. Nothing was said, it was just people at the wrong place and the wrong time.

I was with you until you got to the bit about the AKAs blowing it "WAY out of proportion."

AKA_Monet · #25 05-15-2009, 10:54 PM

Another reminder about how far we have gotten in the Deep South of where I stand and what my organization means to people in this day and age...

More things change, the more they stay the same? IDK?

OR

Without struggle, there's no progress?

Nanners52674 · #26 05-16-2009, 12:10 AM

I don't see the issue of them dressing in confederate uniforms and southern belle gowns. If it's part of their history I see it as similar to people who reenact the war battles.

Idk the history of KA but it seems like the South and the Civil War is a part of their tradition.

Maybe next year the parade route can be reworked.

sceniczip · #27 05-16-2009, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

I don't see the issue of them dressing in confederate uniforms and southern belle gowns. If it's part of their history I see it as similar to people who reenact the war battles.

Idk the history of KA but it seems like the South and the Civil War is a part of their tradition.

Maybe next year the parade route can be reworked.

This is kind of how I thought of it. It reminded me of a Gone With the Wind theme party. But then that's always been one of my favorite books so perhaps I'm biased

MysticCat · #28 05-16-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

I don't see the issue of them dressing in confederate uniforms and southern belle gowns. If it's part of their history I see it as similar to people who reenact the war battles.

Idk the history of KA but it seems like the South and the Civil War is a part of their tradition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sceniczip

This is kind of how I thought of it. It reminded me of a Gone With the Wind theme party. But then that's always been one of my favorite books so perhaps I'm biased

I love Gone With the Wind as much as anyone, but let's be real -- it is a highly romanticized, lop-sided view of the ante-bellum and post-bellum South. Dressing up like Miss Scarlet or Ashley Wilkes is to Civil War Reenactment as, well, fiction is to history.

Look, I get and respect the KA Southern heritage thing, really I do. But there's a reason that KA has taken the position it has on the battle flag -- there are ways to celebrate that heritage that can at the same time respect the perspectives and feelings of others.

I'm being partly facetious when I say this (and then I'll try to be quiet on this subject

), but WWRELD? -- What Would Robt. E. Lee Do? Based on what I've read about him, I'm guessing he'd think there are much better ways to celebrate Southern heritage.

SWTXBelle · #29 05-16-2009, 08:23 AM

KA HQ has made it quite clear that they do not allow their members to use the Battle flag. So the chapter should immediately cease doing so, and should not do it in the future. That issue has been decided by KA themselves, so it should be easily resolved.

C.S.A uniforms in and of themselves are not racist - I would argue that given that slavery was totally abolished in the states of the C.S.A. years before it was abolished in the four slave-holding states of the Union (a fun fact that many don't know or chose to ignore) that it makes more logical sense to be offended by Union blue. That said, if the men of KA had chosen to march on the AKA house in uniform for the purpose of disrupting their function then I could certainly understand AKA being upset. But from all the reporting I've read, it appears that it was a case of unfortunate timing. KA has apologized, and I would hope AKA would graciously accept it. The spokeswoman for AKA acknowledged that she did not believe the men were trying to be racist.

As to what to do next year, were I a KA advisor I would either try to schedule KA Old South on a weekend when AKA did not have a major event planned, or let AKA know when the Old South date pick-up would occur so they could schedule their events, or perhaps revamp the way date pick-up occurs. I am sure Robert E. Lee would wish for the gentlemen of KA to do all they can reasonably be expected to do to honour the sensibilities of the ladies of AKA.

eta - And I wish hoop skirts would come back into style. They hide a multitude of sins!

KSigkid · #30 05-16-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I would argue that given that slavery was totally abolished in the states of the C.S.A. years before it was abolished in the four slave-holding states of the Union (a fun fact that many don't know or chose to ignore) that it makes more logical sense to be offended by Union blue.

Not to turn this into a historical debate, I hope you see the logical problems with this argument...

I think we all understand that slavery was prevalent in the North, and that the abolitionists were disliked in areas of the North...but again, I think there are some issues with your statement. It seems more like you're making an overstatement to get across a point that the Union wasn't perfect (which, admittedly, it wasn't).