Race & Sororities

[Ghostwriter]

I cannot speak for Ole Miss but I can assure you that many large national sororities have multi-cultural members. Both my daughters attended a large southern university and were members of a large national sorority. They had white, hispanic, asian and black sisters. Don't be surprised to see the same thing at other large southern universities. Racism is not dead, of course, but it is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

IRacism ... is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

Agreed. Though I have no insight into the demographic makeup of our Ole Miss chapter today, I worked with their founding mothers during our Ole Miss colonization several years ago. I was proud that they included women from a variety of backgrounds including women of color.

To the OP, keep all your options open: NPC, NPHC, multi-cultural orgs, and service orgs. Ole Miss has so much to offer!

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Racism is not dead, of course, but it is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

I beg to differ. Racism, especially in the South, is as big a factor as people DO and TEND TO presume. I went to school in the South, the Heart of Dixie, and lemme tell you, it wasn't easy, pretty, or damn right at times! When you can still go into courthouses in the south, and if you look hard enough (which sometimes isn't too hard) and you can still see a door that says "Colored Only" then you'll KNOW that racism is still an issue and it's still a HUGE factor in the SOUTH.
Why do you think that MOST HBCU's are in the south? I don't know of many on the West Coast and very few on the upper East Coast.
Racism will always be a factor and it depends on HOW the person makes a choice to deal with it when a) it's presented to them overtly, b) it's presented to them covertly, c) their constantly reminded through daily actions of others, and d) it's a factor within the persons surroundings and enviornment.
So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by cbm

I did not mean for the OP to hide her race, I should have clarified... I would not make a mention of her race being a deciding factor to the sororities when obtaining recs or during rush. This was in response to her comment re: limiting herself.

I think it's probably difficult for any black woman to get a 100% fair rush in the South or parts of the Midwest, partly due to the fact that 99% of rushees are white. I went to a Big 12 with a very active Greek system and only recall 3-4 black rushees coming through while I was on the chapter side of rush. They all got bids to decent houses.

On the campus where I was an active member being non-white actually helped a PNM, though that in itself isn't really fair to them. But very few non-white PNM's go through recruitment every year. And my campus is in the deep south.

[DDDlady]

Ole Miss is a campus and a Greek system that is steeped in old traditions. That being said, you will never know what will happen unless you give it a try. The best advice I can give you is be the best PNM you can be. Get recs (they will be a must), polish your conversation skills, have a stellar GPA, be involved, and with regards to race, do not make it an issue. Just be true to yourself and show them what you have to offer as a new member. Also, since Ole Miss does rush a little later in the semester, be on your best behavior when out and about in Oxford.

[DDDlady]

Also, since Ole Miss is a competitive campus, I would advise that you be discreet and not advertise your name and school too much. Just to be on the safe side. Good luck!

Thank you all!
I've read many good answers.
I like the ones that aren't sugar-coated.
I will rush!
Even if I don't make it, everything will be fine.
I'm strong enough to handle it.
Thanks for the help guys!

[DrPhil]

Yeah the HBCU example isn't a really good one. HBCUs are remnants of individual and institutional racism. They are struggling as are many traditional institutions of the "Black community" that thrived during a time when exclusion was more overtly prevalent. Some see this struggle to mean that Blacks no longer need HBCUs, or any other traditional institution, because racism is dead. That's a faulty logical leap which is inaccurate based on the data. But, there is a sound premise regarding what it means when institutions decline in significance.

A better example would be to address the conditions that most of these HBCUs are in and the surrounding communities. It is no coincidence that most of these HBCUs service a disproportionately low income demographic and are in low income surroundings. That's the intersection of race and social class in this highly segregated society. Along with that comes socioeconomic exclusion that perpetuates the disproportionately Black underclass. THAT is what majority-minority racism is really about in the past generation--NOT about signs on doors, being called racial slurs, or whether a biracial woman will get a bid at Ole Miss. Those are relatively rare so they shouldn't be used as metrics.

[FSUZeta]

not meaning to kumbaya, but while we might assume that an african-american pnm was not extended a bid by the most sought after chapter on campus was because she was african american, we don't know for sure unless we sat in on the membership selection. many factors are considered as chapters evaluate pnms for membership-race may or may not be one of those factors. noone, not even the blue-eyed blonde super model pre-med pnm has a guarantee that she will get a bid.

assuming that an african american pnm chose a lower tier npc chapter because that was all she could get and the chapter was just desperate for warm bodies does a disservice to the pnm and the chapter. who's to say that it was not love at first sight for the pnm and that chapter?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

not meaning to kumbaya, but while we might assume that an african-american pnm was not extended a bid by the most sought after chapter on campus was because she was african american, we don't know for sure unless we sat in on the membership selection. many factors are considered as chapters evaluate pnms for membership-race may or may not be one of those factors. noone, not even the blue-eyed blonde super model pre-med pnm has a guarantee that she will get a bid.

assuming that an african american pnm chose a lower tier npc chapter because that was all she could get and the chapter was just desparate for warm bodies does a disservice to the pnm and the chapter. whose to say that it was not love at first sight for the pnm and that chapter?

But, we all know that sometimes that IS the case. I've seen it happen over and over at specific campuses--and although we also like to talk about how membership selection is the private business of the chapter, let's not pretend that there are chapter members who are less than discreet about their membership selection!

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

But, we all know that sometimes that IS the case. I've seen it happen over and over at specific campuses--and although we also like to talk about how membership selection is the private business of the chapter, let's not pretend that there are chapter members who are less than discreet about their membership selection!

And, in my experience, sometimes those same chapter members (the ones who are not discreet) are the same ones who really don't know what they are talking about - they may run around saying "We didn't bid So-n-so because she is black", but 1.) this is a stupid person, so take everything she says with a grain of salt and 2.) that may have been discussed, but ultimately it comes down to a vote, and no one can say with 100% certainty why their sisters chose to vote the way they did - yet another reason to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP SELECTION.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

And, in my experience, sometimes those same chapter members (the ones who are not discreet) are the same ones who really don't know what they are talking about - they may run around saying "We didn't bid So-n-so because she is black", but 1.) this is a stupid person, so take everything she says with a grain of salt and 2.) that may have been discussed, but ultimately it comes down to a vote, and no one can say with 100% certainty why their sisters chose to vote the way they did - yet another reason to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP SELECTION.

Definitely don't discuss membership selection with nonmembers.

But, the decision making process isn't such a mystery in many instances. Many chapters talk to each other in great detail about how they feel about applicants and why they voted. Some chapters are simply unfortunate enough to have members who tell chapter business.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

And, in my experience, sometimes those same chapter members (the ones who are not discreet) are the same ones who really don't know what they are talking about - they may run around saying "We didn't bid So-n-so because she is black", but 1.) this is a stupid person, so take everything she says with a grain of salt and 2.) that may have been discussed, but ultimately it comes down to a vote, and no one can say with 100% certainty why their sisters chose to vote the way they did - yet another reason to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP SELECTION.

Would a person who goes around saying that really be stupid or just honest? No offense, but it gets really ridiculous in certain situations when people try to pretend like people really don't know why someone wasn't picked. In many cases it IS racism, but it is that subtle racism that will never actually be acknowledged. In my opinion that is the most dangerous type of racism because there's nothing you can do about it. I would rather deal with the person who is admitting that they turned someone down because of their race than someone who acts all prim and proper and polite while lying through their teeth. And in the case of these types of sororities, they hide behind the membership selection process and often point to other white women who weren't selected as if that really proves anything. No, all white women won't get into the predominately white sororities. I don't think anyone is crazy enough to believe that. However, when you have chapters or entire organizations that never have black members, that tells the story in and of itself because you can't sit there and honestly say that there have NEVER been any qualified black women.

As far as the OP, it sounds like she has other issues going on within herself concerning her racial identity. She doesn't want to join a "black" sorority because she doesn't want to "limit" herself, but now it sounds like she wants to join a predominately white sorority. That's not equally limiting?

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

As far as the OP, it sounds like she has other issues going on within herself concerning her racial identity. She doesn't want to join a "black" sorority because she doesn't want to "limit" herself, but now it sounds like she wants to join a predominately white sorority. That's not equally limiting?

Hi
I'm a bi-racial (black/white) female attending Ole Miss in the fall. I want to rush, but I don't want to limit myself to historically black sororities. Is race a deciding factor in most sororities? Are any of you members of sororities with members of a race other than the majority?

Any advice or information will be greatly appreciated.

as you can see i never said i didn't want to join a black sororities...
i said i don't want to limit myself.
as in i want a chance at more than 4 organizations.

but to give you a better understanding of why i would like to try for more than just those 4:

i've always gone to predominantly white schools.
the majority of my friends are white (the black kids thought i was weird because i "acted white." but that's an inside issue?)
i've always been myself.
i've always acted the same... i uphold the things my BLACK family taught me...

so i can assure you i'm perfectly fine with my race... i know who i am... but i've never been one to sit around and follow the norm.

[please don't take this as me being rude because that's not my intention... but as a whole (i'm not saying all), i've not been accepted within the african-american community because of my PERSONALITY...]
i want to be somewhere that i'll fit in and not have to monitor my natural personality...

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Would a person who goes around saying that really be stupid or just honest? No offense, but it gets really ridiculous in certain situations when people try to pretend like people really don't know why someone wasn't picked. In many cases it IS racism, but it is that subtle racism that will never actually be acknowledged. In my opinion that is the most dangerous type of racism because there's nothing you can do about it. I would rather deal with the person who is admitting that they turned someone down because of their race than someone who acts all prim and proper and polite while lying through their teeth. And in the case of these types of sororities, they hide behind the membership selection process and often point to other white women who weren't selected as if that really proves anything. No, all white women won't get into the predominately white sororities. I don't think anyone is crazy enough to believe that. However, when you have chapters or entire organizations that never have black members, that tells the story in and of itself because you can't sit there and honestly say that there have NEVER been any qualified black women.

As far as the OP, it sounds like she has other issues going on within herself concerning her racial identity. She doesn't want to join a "black" sorority because she doesn't want to "limit" herself, but now it sounds like she wants to join a predominately white sorority. That's not equally limiting?

Again, you are basing all of this on your instincts or opinion - I will give you a concrete example of why I can sit here and say that sometimes there haven't been any qualified black women going through a NPC recruitment. SMU - the NPC sororities were criticized in the press, and then someone actually did the research - AND IT TURNS OUT UP TO THAT POINT IN TIME NO BLACK WOMEN HAD GONE THROUGH RECRUITMENT. Several qualified women went through, and guess what? They were pledged. So yes, I can sit here and say that sometimes the problem is that black women are not going thorugh the NPC recruitment process.

And again - you don't understand NPC membership selection. You can't. I don't think I'm revealing too much to say that the reasons behind a member's vote remain as private as the member wishes. Race may, or may not, be a reason for A member to chose not to vote for a woman - but for you to become omniscient all of a sudden and say that it is racism for chapters to not have black members (I don't know of any NPCs that DON'T have minority members - I'm sure we would have heard of it were that the case) is to denigrate the NPC and the many intelligent, open-minded members who have pledged and initiated women from across the colour spectrum. Are there chapters that might not pledge a black woman? Probably - but to paint the whole system at a campus or even worse, the NPC ,as racist without some sort of data to back up your assertion is to ignore the reality of NPC chapters today AND discourages otherwise interested women from pursuing membership - then it becomes a vicious circle. Black women don't go through, black women don't pledge, chapters don't have black members, so black women don't go through.