Eight Founding schools or seven? (Change on Wikipedia)

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ihr

From the GSS National Archivist:

Eta was reserved at the 1st national convention in Chicago, but University of Miami in Coral Gables came into Gamma Sig as Upsilon in 1958, 6 years after the representative from U of M showed up at Beekman Towers.

Agreed.

What comes to mind is that a reasonable assumption would be that the representative from U of Miami was representing a female collegiate service organization (trying to use the appropriately wide description of the groups), just as the the representatives from the other schools were. I wonder if it was a Greek Letter Organization (like Alpha Gamma Chi, Gamma Sigma Sigma, Phi Gamma or Omega Service Sorority) or not (like Booster Squad or Women's Service Organization).

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by naraht

Agreed.

What comes to mind is that a reasonable assumption would be that the representative from U of Miami was representing a female collegiate service organization (trying to use the appropriately wide description of the groups), just as the the representatives from the other schools were. I wonder if it was a Greek Letter Organization (like Alpha Gamma Chi, Gamma Sigma Sigma, Phi Gamma or Omega Service Sorority) or not (like Booster Squad or Women's Service Organization).

The representative from Uof Miami was from an organization called Sigma Lambda Phi, an sorority founded on that campus in 1950.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

The representative from Uof Miami was from an organization called Sigma Lambda Phi, an sorority founded on that campus in 1950.

Googling for "Sigma Lambda Phi" and "University of Miami"..

The 1961 Ibis Yearbook page for Gamma Sigma Sigma at http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/.../Page_283.html says "UM's Upsilon Chapter was known as Sigma Lambda Phi until 1958, when it joined the national organization."

There is also a page for Sigma Lambda Phi in the 1955 Ibis Yearbook at http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/.../Page_260.html

Looks like strong ties with the Alpha Phi Omega chapter.

Page for GSS at University of Miami in 1960 at http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/.../Page_292.html

(other years, check out http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&n...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=)

Edited the Wikipedia page to add Sigma Lambda Phi.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

just curious...but why did you google it and why are you alway so curious about GSS history, etc?

I googled it so that I could get additional references acceptible to Wikipedia. Since according to one poster "it's straight out of the history", I'd love to reference the history , but until I get that, the google was to get a reference...

As for why I'm so interested in Gamma Sigma Sigma History, I'm on the National History and Archives Committee for Alpha Phi Omega. I don't feel that a full and true history of Alpha Phi Omega can be written without knowledge of how Gamma Sigma Sigma interacted with Alpha Phi Omega over the last 50+ years and that begins even before the meeting at Beekman Tower. I also took as a personal challenge trying to get the Gamma Sigma Sigma article on Wikipedia to be as good as I can make it, which in turn forces good references.

I love the fact that Gamma Sigma Sigma is doing a more complete job of researching its history and found the fact that some chapters in the past on their websites listed the eighth school as U of Miami and some as Miami of Ohio to be like nails on chalkboard... (Fortunately that's gone away)

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

I don't see how it is your place to go onto the page (although I know it's public) and make it a mission to make changes and also challenge what others have posted (as when gssmarketing made changes).

It is up to Gamma Sigma Sigma to make updates to it's pages; I know there's history with Alpha Phi Omega but although you may have good intentions, it can be portrayed as getting into something that isn't yours to get into

The way that Wikipedia works is that no one "owns" any page. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...ip_of_articles . All editors with referencable information are equal. For example, I have just as much right to edit the page on France as the President of France does.

Having said that, I would much appreciate additional editing to the Gamma Sigma Sigma article by Gamma Sigma Sigma sisters. I'm sure there is a great deal more information that would be appropriate to add to the article *and* certain images on the Gamma Sigma Sigma National Website that would be wonderful on the Wikipedia page (such as the picture of the founders on http://www.gammasigmasigma.org/mission.html) can only be added with the legal permission of the Sorority or its representatives.

Also, I've been burned before in terms of assuming that a username on Wikipedia actually represented the truth about what the person behind the username was and I've found that there really is very little sure way of verifying that someone with a username of gssmarketing on wikipedia actually is someone on the National Board of Gamma Sigma Sigma.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by naraht

I don't feel that a full and true history of Alpha Phi Omega can be written without knowledge of how Gamma Sigma Sigma interacted with Alpha Phi Omega over the last 50+ years and that begins even before the meeting at Beekman Tower.

I'm glad somebody from Alpha Phi Omega said this. Our interactions together are not really documented and I think they should be at least for historical purposes. I've been GSS for 11 years and I kept being told that we aren't as linked as we think we are; I've always disagreed with that.

Originally Posted by naraht

I love the fact that Gamma Sigma Sigma is doing a more complete job of researching its history and found the fact that some chapters in the past on their websites listed the eighth school as U of Miami and some as Miami of Ohio to be like nails on chalkboard... (Fortunately that's gone away)

I would agree, that was a HUGE argument and I'm glad it was finally cleared up. What was also cleared up was what the EXACT role of APO was in our founding as well.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

right out of the history LOL

EXACTLY. Can't go wrong with that!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

I'm glad somebody from Alpha Phi Omega said this. Our interactions together are not really documented and I think they should be at least for historical purposes. I've been GSS for 11 years and I kept being told that we aren't as linked as we think we are; I've always disagreed with that.


I would agree, that was a HUGE argument and I'm glad it was finally cleared up. What was also cleared up was what the EXACT role of APO was in our founding as well.

Whether there are Links depends on what type you are talking about, of course.

Legal, none. (But then as far as I can tell the only ones for that are ZPBS)
Historical, considerable, but varied by both time and place.
Ideals, certainly.
Cultural, depends on the school, with both the type of school and the gender status of the APO chapter affecting the relationship.

I think all of these are recognized at the National Level between the two organizations.

Miami of Ohio is a great school, but not the correct one...

I would love to see what has been cleared up in terms of the Exact role of APO in the founding of GSS. As best as I can tell from the APO side, the Exact role of APO in the founding of GSS consisted of giving addresses and phone numbers to put women's service groups in contact with each other. I have seen *zero* indication that there were any APO brothers at Beekman Tower. I know that the APO National President was a guest at the First National Convention in 1953, but I don't know if GSS counts the founding as ending before the 1953 convention or not.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

WHO said those are our founder's?

Whoops. An apparently incorrect assumption. (and certainly one without a reference).

Could you enlighten me as to who they are?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

I understand that no one owns the page, but you DO know you aren't a member and even though you may feel that you have good information, I personally don't feel that it is your place (or anyone that isn't a member) to go in there to edit our stuff - especially now that it should be VERY clear to you that we got under control. It just seems like you go out of your way to question and dig on things that really aren't things that we are going to put on there. We do not need to post all of our information out there just to satisfy curious minds... if you want to know - join the sorority.

I'm very aware that I'm not a member of Gamma Sigma Sigma, however with Cherry Blossom Alumni Chapter currently inactive and feeling unsuitable as an advisor to either Alpha Eta or Zeta Sigma my options would be limited even if I wished to.

I have no wish to publish any information that is private to the sorority on Wikipedia. If I were to find a copy of the rituals of Gamma Sigma Sigma, my first action would be to call the 800 number in the footer of the pages on the Gamma Sigma Sigma National website.

[ECUGSS]

Originally Posted by naraht

I'm very aware that I'm not a member of Gamma Sigma Sigma, however with Cherry Blossom Alumni Chapter currently inactive and feeling unsuitable as an advisor to either Alpha Eta or Zeta Sigma my options would be limited even if I wished to.

I have no wish to publish any information that is private to the sorority on Wikipedia. If I were to find a copy of the rituals of Gamma Sigma Sigma, my first action would be to call the 800 number in the footer of the pages on the Gamma Sigma Sigma National website.

1. Greater Baltimore Alumni Chapter is active...
Alpha Eta/Zeta Sigma - you'd only be able to join if you were going to school (which I doubt) at either one; you'd be able to serve as a faculty advisor if you worked at either school (which I doubt) but even so, that doesn't mean you are a member of the sorority
2. It is good to know that if you found a copy of our rituals you'd call... please do call if you find one, that would be interesting to say the least.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

seriously? no. not trying to be rude, just not something that I feel needs to be disclosed

also, we clearly count our founding to be BEFORE 1953 (I am sure you saw that on wikipedia...founder's day is 10/12/1952)

Hmm. I guess the creators of the website are intentionally trying to confuse then. I just located the image as being at http://www.gammasigmasigma.org/images/founders.jpg

I understand that, however for APO depending on how you count the founding, it ends either at the end of the day of the initial chartering, the day months later when BSA recognized us or even six years later when H. Roe Bartle took over as the second president from Frank Reed Horton.

So if the founding period for GSS is counted as something beyond just those three days, I thought it might include the first National Convention.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

1. Greater Baltimore Alumni Chapter is active...
Alpha Eta/Zeta Sigma - you'd only be able to join if you were going to school (which I doubt) at either one; you'd be able to serve as a faculty advisor if you worked at either school (which I doubt) but even so, that doesn't mean you are a member of the sorority
2. It is good to know that if you found a copy of our rituals you'd call... please do call if you find one, that would be interesting to say the least.

I'm aware of GBAC, but I didn't know if their area of coverage expanded when Cherry Blossom went inactive.

I'm a little confused by the statement that you made after that. Are faculty advisors members of the sorority or not? (And you are correct, I'm not a faculty member or student at either Alpha Eta (Howard U) or Zeta Sigma (McDaniel C), but those are my two closest schools with GSS chapters. (I live about 10 miles north of Washington DC.

Actually, the other option that sprang to mind on the idea of finding a copy of the GSS rituals would be to send it straight to Lynne Mowers. I know she has attended rituals for both of our organizations.

[ECUGSS]

Hmm. I guess the creators of the website are intentionally trying to confuse then. I just located the image as being at http://www.gammasigmasigma.org/images/founders.jpg

Yes, maybe so. I am still not explaining this further.

I understand that, however for APO depending on how you count the founding, it ends either at the end of the day of the initial chartering, the day months later when BSA recognized us or even six years later when H. Roe Bartle took over as the second president from Frank Reed Horton.

So if the founding period for GSS is counted as something beyond just those three days, I thought it might include the first National Convention.

We are not APO so it doesn't matter how APO does it. You know we consider our Founder's Day to be October 12, 1952 so why bring up APO in this discussion.

I'm aware of GBAC, but I didn't know if their area of coverage expanded when Cherry Blossom went inactive.

We do not have territories and boundaries for membership in alumni chapters. Period. Cherry Blossom at one point had a member in KY. We have 2 alumni chapters in the same city. I could go on and on, but won't as not necessary. Point - no territories.

I'm a little confused by the statement that you made after that. Are faculty advisors members of the sorority or not?

No, faculty advisors are just that...faculty of the school...some schools require organizations to have them (faculty advisors)so our chapters have them...why would we give them automatic membership??? Don't answer that. But the answer is no, they are not members of the sorority; not automatically, if the advisor happens to have been a GSS in college and is now alumni, then obviously they are a member of the sorority and a faculty advisor. Also, if the chapter granted them honorary membership, they'd be a member but we don't have that happening all of the time.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ECUGSS

Yes, maybe so. I am still not explaining this further.



We are not APO so it doesn't matter how APO does it. You know we consider our Founder's Day to be October 12, 1952 so why bring up APO in this discussion.



We do not have territories and boundaries for membership in alumni chapters. Period. Cherry Blossom at one point had a member in KY. We have 2 alumni chapters in the same city. I could go on and on, but won't as not necessary. Point - no territories.



No, faculty advisors are just that...faculty of the school...some schools require organizations to have them (faculty advisors)so our chapters have them...why would we give them automatic membership??? Don't answer that. But the answer is no, they are not members of the sorority; not automatically, if the advisor happens to have been a GSS in college and is now alumni, then obviously they are a member of the sorority and a faculty advisor. Also, if the chapter granted them honorary membership, they'd be a member but we don't have that happening all of the time.

Hmm. In regards to founders, it seems that the emphasis in GSS is on the organizations/schools represented at the Beekman tower, not the women who were at the meeting. But a picture like that would tend to emphasize the women rather than their organizations (not easy to tell from the picture which women are from where) so it might not be an image that would be particularly publicized... Might cut down on the degree of founder worship that you find in some GLOs...


OK, GSS's Founder's day is what GSS says it is...

No territories, but what happens if the membership of a Alumni Chapter keeps shifting in one direction (say Cherry Blossom kept taking members and meeting farther and farther south...) Limited to within the GSS District? (not sure if DC was in the District V or District IV prior to the District change at the 2009 convention.

Being a faculty advisor doesn't make one a member of the sorority. Hmm. At least for the social fraternities and sororities at my alma mater, the school risk management practices said that they had to have advisors at the rituals.