APO Philippines

[naraht]

Originally Posted by filipinoAPO

it's a good thing you brought this up brother.. i have been thinking of it too.. i hope ICAPO would be able to work out a solution so brothers of different countries are able to be actives should they move to another country..i think it would strengthen the bond between different APO jurisdictions and among brothers of different countries as well.

The solution may be worked out by the board of ICAPO, but it would have to passed by the national conventions.

For APO-USA, I think the main effects would probably be a slight redesign of the transfer form (extra blank for Nation (USA,RP, Australia) and emails to APO-Phil National Office for confirmation (Haven't got a clue to who would be contacted for confirmation on the APO-Australia chapter).

However, I think that working things out for the Alumni Associations may be of both more immediate need and easier to get through convention(s).

[filipinoAPO]

Originally Posted by naraht

The solution may be worked out by the board of ICAPO, but it would have to passed by the national conventions.

For APO-USA, I think the main effects would probably be a slight redesign of the transfer form (extra blank for Nation (USA,RP, Australia) and emails to APO-Phil National Office for confirmation (Haven't got a clue to who would be contacted for confirmation on the APO-Australia chapter).

However, I think that working things out for the Alumni Associations may be of both more immediate need and easier to get through convention(s).

Okay..thank you for the info.. with regards to APO-Australia..i will try to contact brothers in the national office of APO-Phils i personally know.. I will inform you as soon as possible..

[naraht]

Originally Posted by filipinoAPO

Okay..thank you for the info.. with regards to APO-Australia..i will try to contact brothers in the national office of APO-Phils i personally know.. I will inform you as soon as possible..

Um. That was largely a theoretical for later... And I know that the APO-Phil AA in Australia has responsibility for them...

[Yeayea]

Originally Posted by jon1856

I am glad to learn that, in this case, there is a real connection between the two groups.

I don't want to disclose any part of my identity, but I will tell you that I'm from APO in the US.

To be quite frank, the general opinion of APO in the Philippines (at least in my Region) is extremely negative. The belief is that APO is huge in the Philippines because they are a gang. Literally, they go around and murder people; although to be fair, it is pretty much all based on anecdotal evidence... a LOT of anecdotes.

In the APO Facebook group, they frequently post RIPs for different brothers. It's sad people are dying, but it scares me to think about why so many Filipino APO bros are dying so often. I don't know why or how LFS got twisted up this way, but that's apparently what it is. Also, based on the APO Facebook group, the APO Philippines brothers just seem really really freaky in general--like they're brainwashed to love APO so much. They are obsessed with APO for their entire lives. Many of them have only pictures with them and some APO banner or at least making the APO hand sign--even people who are 40+ years old. They usually end every comment with "MWAB" or "STCW" which means "may we always be" and "strong the circle we," quotes taken from the Toast Song. They are so excessively proud of being part of a community service organization, but they don't post many things relevant to service at all. They make everyone else in the group too uncomfortable to post their own chapter things. They call donating blood, "bloodletting" which is a completely different thing that terrifies me. They also like to post "in memory" comments about the founding fathers of APO in a way that's really intense and comes off, to me, like worshiping. Also, they keep trying to guilt us into donating money so they can build their recruitment/scouting center that's like literally this insanely ginormous, crazy-nice center with glass walls and stuff. It simply just contradicts the overall goal of the fraternity, which is to help humanity, promote friendship, and develop leadership. This building is just completely unnecessary and grossly ostentatious.

In general, we don't like what APO is in the Philippines at all. The only reason why there is some relationship with APO USA and APO Philippines is because the US side doesn't have any way of stopping what the Filipino brothers are doing. Maybe it's just because there exists enough distinction between the two parties that the US APO has decided to just leave it the way it is. That's my guess. This is all based on my personal experience in APO, so please remember not to take it as the absolute truth. Hope this helps.

[sigmagirl2000]

Originally Posted by Yeayea

I don't want to disclose any part of my identity, but I will tell you that I'm from APO in the US.

To be quite frank, the general opinion of APO in the Philippines (at least in my Region) is extremely negative. The belief is that APO is huge in the Philippines because they are a gang. Literally, they go around and murder people; although to be fair, it is pretty much all based on anecdotal evidence... a LOT of anecdotes.

In the APO Facebook group, they frequently post RIPs for different brothers. It's sad people are dying, but it scares me to think about why so many Filipino APO bros are dying so often. I don't know why or how LFS got twisted up this way, but that's apparently what it is. Also, based on the APO Facebook group, the APO Philippines brothers just seem really really freaky in general--like they're brainwashed to love APO so much. They are obsessed with APO for their entire lives. Many of them have only pictures with them and some APO banner or at least making the APO hand sign--even people who are 40+ years old. They usually end every comment with "MWAB" or "STCW" which means "may we always be" and "strong the circle we," quotes taken from the Toast Song. They are so excessively proud of being part of a community service organization, but they don't post many things relevant to service at all. They make everyone else in the group too uncomfortable to post their own chapter things. They call donating blood, "bloodletting" which is a completely different thing that terrifies me. They also like to post "in memory" comments about the founding fathers of APO in a way that's really intense and comes off, to me, like worshiping. Also, they keep trying to guilt us into donating money so they can build their recruitment/scouting center that's like literally this insanely ginormous, crazy-nice center with glass walls and stuff. It simply just contradicts the overall goal of the fraternity, which is to help humanity, promote friendship, and develop leadership. This building is just completely unnecessary and grossly ostentatious.

In general, we don't like what APO is in the Philippines at all. The only reason why there is some relationship with APO USA and APO Philippines is because the US side doesn't have any way of stopping what the Filipino brothers are doing. Maybe it's just because there exists enough distinction between the two parties that the US APO has decided to just leave it the way it is. That's my guess. This is all based on my personal experience in APO, so please remember not to take it as the absolute truth. Hope this helps.

whoa. qfp. whoa

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by Yeayea

I don't want to disclose any part of my identity, but I will tell you that I'm from APO in the US.

To be quite frank, the general opinion of APO in the Philippines (at least in my Region) is extremely negative. The belief is that APO is huge in the Philippines because they are a gang. Literally, they go around and murder people; although to be fair, it is pretty much all based on anecdotal evidence... a LOT of anecdotes.

In the APO Facebook group, they frequently post RIPs for different brothers. It's sad people are dying, but it scares me to think about why so many Filipino APO bros are dying so often. I don't know why or how LFS got twisted up this way, but that's apparently what it is. Also, based on the APO Facebook group, the APO Philippines brothers just seem really really freaky in general--like they're brainwashed to love APO so much. They are obsessed with APO for their entire lives. Many of them have only pictures with them and some APO banner or at least making the APO hand sign--even people who are 40+ years old. They usually end every comment with "MWAB" or "STCW" which means "may we always be" and "strong the circle we," quotes taken from the Toast Song. They are so excessively proud of being part of a community service organization, but they don't post many things relevant to service at all. They make everyone else in the group too uncomfortable to post their own chapter things. They call donating blood, "bloodletting" which is a completely different thing that terrifies me. They also like to post "in memory" comments about the founding fathers of APO in a way that's really intense and comes off, to me, like worshiping. Also, they keep trying to guilt us into donating money so they can build their recruitment/scouting center that's like literally this insanely ginormous, crazy-nice center with glass walls and stuff. It simply just contradicts the overall goal of the fraternity, which is to help humanity, promote friendship, and develop leadership. This building is just completely unnecessary and grossly ostentatious.

In general, we don't like what APO is in the Philippines at all. The only reason why there is some relationship with APO USA and APO Philippines is because the US side doesn't have any way of stopping what the Filipino brothers are doing. Maybe it's just because there exists enough distinction between the two parties that the US APO has decided to just leave it the way it is. That's my guess. This is all based on my personal experience in APO, so please remember not to take it as the absolute truth. Hope this helps.

You are an unbrotherly little bitch.

But let me explain why that's what you are.

1) You don't speak for Alpha Phi Omega.

2) You don't understand the culture of fraternalism in the Philippines.

3) You are hiding behind a screen name to speak poorly about your own brothers.

4) Real talk, you also sound racist. There is not a significant difference between APO-Phils zeal for APO and that of predominate black chapters of APO.

So since you see my REAL name, I welcome you to continue this conversation if you can find yourself to be woman enough to stop hiding, you fucking coward.

[clemsongirl]

But seriously, oh snap.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Yeayea

I don't want to disclose any part of my identity, but I will tell you that I'm from APO in the US.

To be quite frank, the general opinion of APO in the Philippines (at least in my Region) is extremely negative. The belief is that APO is huge in the Philippines because they are a gang. Literally, they go around and murder people; although to be fair, it is pretty much all based on anecdotal evidence... a LOT of anecdotes.

In the APO Facebook group, they frequently post RIPs for different brothers. It's sad people are dying, but it scares me to think about why so many Filipino APO bros are dying so often. I don't know why or how LFS got twisted up this way, but that's apparently what it is. Also, based on the APO Facebook group, the APO Philippines brothers just seem really really freaky in general--like they're brainwashed to love APO so much. They are obsessed with APO for their entire lives. Many of them have only pictures with them and some APO banner or at least making the APO hand sign--even people who are 40+ years old. They usually end every comment with "MWAB" or "STCW" which means "may we always be" and "strong the circle we," quotes taken from the Toast Song. They are so excessively proud of being part of a community service organization, but they don't post many things relevant to service at all. They make everyone else in the group too uncomfortable to post their own chapter things. They call donating blood, "bloodletting" which is a completely different thing that terrifies me. They also like to post "in memory" comments about the founding fathers of APO in a way that's really intense and comes off, to me, like worshiping. Also, they keep trying to guilt us into donating money so they can build their recruitment/scouting center that's like literally this insanely ginormous, crazy-nice center with glass walls and stuff. It simply just contradicts the overall goal of the fraternity, which is to help humanity, promote friendship, and develop leadership. This building is just completely unnecessary and grossly ostentatious.

In general, we don't like what APO is in the Philippines at all. The only reason why there is some relationship with APO USA and APO Philippines is because the US side doesn't have any way of stopping what the Filipino brothers are doing. Maybe it's just because there exists enough distinction between the two parties that the US APO has decided to just leave it the way it is. That's my guess. This is all based on my personal experience in APO, so please remember not to take it as the absolute truth. Hope this helps.

Like Sen's Revenge (Rashid), I'll be happy to identify myself, my name is Randolph Finder and I'm on International Relations Cmte.

To speak to particular points.
1) The plural of Anecdote is not Data.
2) Somewhere I've got a copy of an old APO-USA rush pamphlet "Everybody has to have a gang".
3) Yes, there have been "Fratwars" in the Philippines. In some ways the situation in the Philippines is more violent than the USA has been since the US Civil War, that makes brothers following Alpha Phi Omega's principles more needed there, not less.
4) Much of what you are talking about in the following paragraphs falls under one simple concept, APO-Phil Alumni are *much more* active than those in APO-USA. If they are posting about a 45 year old man who has passed a way of a heart attack it means that that brother has remained active as an alumnus rather than forgetting the Fraternity 6 months after graduation.
5) While there certainly are differences in some of the community service projects that they do, some are simply geography (no one in APO-Phil is going to shovel snow off of sidewalks) and others are related to the lack of things like the Health services that many in the US take granted. When an APO-Phil chapter or Alumni Association organizes getting Dentists into a small town fow a weekend when that town doesn't have Dentists, that's to be praised, not denegrated because an APO-USA chapter wouldn't do it (Not that I would suggest it for an APO-USA chapter to do in the same way)
6) The very *first* APO-USA Torch and Trefoil to refer to APO-Phil (December of 1950, 9 months after founding) referred to their blood donation service project as "Blood Doning", which I also consider unusual as well. However it appears that Bloodletting is now a *very* used term in the Philippines. For example, from a newsarticle about a month ago in the Zamboanga Sun-Times (Zamboanga is the largest city in the Southern Philippines) starts out with "OVER 500 volunteers from different state colleges, police and military joined the bloodletting activity organized by the Philippine Red Cross (PRC)-Zamboanga City Chapter as tribute to Mayor Ma. Isabelle Climaco-Salazar’ birthday." (Alpha Phi Omega isn't even mentioned in the article)
7) I also find the uses of "Lord Frank Reed Horton" to be a little odd when looked at from the outside, but that's not all that unusual in the context of Philippine Fraternalism. (And I have corrected it in various forums that I'm on that have lots of APO-Phil brods and sisses.)
8) They have a much better relationship with Boy Scouts of the Philippines than APO-USA does. OTOH, at least they aren't "wholly owned subsidiary" of BSP the way that APO-USA came close to in the 1930s during HRB's term.
9) And in terms of raising money, I remember how much money raising there was for the Building fund for the current APO-USA office in the 1980s.
10) ICAPO (International Council of Alpha Phi Omega) is considerably better than when we didn't talk to each other in the late 1960s and 1970s. (Mostly after the death of Ferdinand Tabtab)

There are still certainly issues.
A)Most APO-USA National Board members cringe at the entire concept of the Oblation Run (Nude run to call attention to specific political issues) , but the concept came from a time when the entire University culture was under more stress than it has *ever* been in the USA. (Any suggestion that *any* US president has imposed anything like Marcos's Martial Law in the early 1970s will be ignored).
B)APO-Phil's doesn't have the paper trail for membership that APO-USA does. So you have chains of people each one who verifies the next one's membership for each chapter being sometimes necessary. (Note, this is really only needed because of Alpha Phi Omega's more significant role in the Philippines, so you actually have people claiming to be brothers or sisters. I can't think of the last that that was true in the USA).
C) I actually agree with the world Zeal that Rashid mentioned. It does have effects, both good and bad, but I would say that pretty much the entire Fraternal system in the Philippines (and I'm including groups like the Masons) has a higher level of Zeal than it does in the USA (and yes, I'm including the NPHC and the Alpha Phi Omega chapters at the HBCUs in that, while their Zeal is higher than that of the HWF&S, I don't think it quite reaches the same level).

I'm responding with less anger than Rashid *only* because I feel that commenting point by point is likely to be more useful.

[Kevin]

These are the kinds of conversations which should occur within the organization and not on an online forum.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Kevin

These are the kinds of conversations which should occur within the organization and not on an online forum.

Agreed. But the initial post was *not* one that should be left without a response.

[justifymylove36]

But I saw a video of APO hazing in the Phillipines. Like, not fun pledging stuff but a literal beatdown. I was shocked and hurt that people like that are brothers of mine because I don't identify with that. Also, even a Filipino VP has said he was hazed in APO, while also backtracking to say it doesn't go on any longer. The video I saw was from 2012. I hope Nationals will look into this.

I know hazing's everywhere, so I won't judge the entire country's chapters.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by justifymylove36

But I saw a video of APO hazing in the Phillipines. Like, not fun pledging stuff but a literal beatdown. I was shocked and hurt that people like that are brothers of mine because I don't identify with that. Also, even a Filipino VP has said he was hazed in APO, while also backtracking to say it doesn't go on any longer. The video I saw was from 2012. I hope Nationals will look into this.

I know hazing's everywhere, so I won't judge the entire country's chapters.

Why did you need to post this at all?

[justifymylove36]

Because I replied to a question posted in an online forum.

But I'm sure you're trying to uncover some hidden bigoted motive on my part, so here goes: I was reading about hazing in Greek orgs weeks before and was curious to see if there was ever a serious issue with APO and hazing. I Googled "Alpha Phi Omega hazing" and sure enough there was a news story about a chapter somewhere on YouTube. It was in Tagalog and the only words I understood were "APO Hazing" and the video was just awful. Another link the search pointed to was the VP mentioning that he was hazed years ago.

Like I said, I am glad that APO branched off into another country and yes I find it touching that there is a love for our org all over the world. I found very positive APO blogs and videos from our brothers in the Philippines as well.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by justifymylove36

Because I replied to a question posted in an online forum.

But I'm sure you're trying to uncover some hidden bigoted motive on my part, so here goes: I was reading about hazing in Greek orgs weeks before and was curious to see if there was ever a serious issue with APO and hazing. I Googled "Alpha Phi Omega hazing" and sure enough there was a news story about a chapter somewhere on YouTube. It was in Tagalog and the only words I understood were "APO Hazing" and the video was just awful. Another link the search pointed to was the VP mentioning that he was hazed years ago.

Like I said, I am glad that APO branched off into another country and yes I find it touching that there is a love for our org all over the world. I found very positive APO blogs and videos from our brothers in the Philippines as well.

I do agree that the original posted question was fairly open.., so I'm less stressed on your comment than on of the other postings.
You may want to read the entire thread so far, but I'll repeat a couple of points...

1) Comparing the fraternity culture in the US to that of the Philippines isn't like comparing Apples and Oranges, it more like comparing Apples and Grand Pianos.

2) At the National level, APO Philippines really is trying to get rid of hazing. Doesn't mean they don't have backsliders though and there are still Greek Letter Organizations in the Philippines who still haze like that even with the passing of the Anti-hazing law (which BTW, has heavier penalties than almost all of the US States).

3) APO-USA nationals really doesn't have that much control in that regards of what happens in the Philippines.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by justifymylove36

Because I replied to a question posted in an online forum.

But I'm sure you're trying to uncover some hidden bigoted motive on my part, so here goes:

It wasn't hidden.