Throwing without Knowing?

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

There's apparently a petition going around to get HQ to reconsider. Oh my. Glad I'm only serving on a local level.

FWIW - I think we *technically* still have a whistle. I couldn't tell you what it is, though.

ETA: I am totally cracking up at all the current actives' comments about throwing away "long-standing" traditions.

I think I have the melody to the whistle in one of my vintage songbooks. Let's bring back the whistle!

I'm with you - I can't figure out how to make the letters out of the hand signal used by actives. I know they're things that you generally can't show to the outside world, but our actual ritual is so beautiful and meaningful, why the need to copy/appropriate things from other groups? Because it looks good in photos? Because everyone else is doing it? I'm so glad I'm not 18-22 anymore.

I'd also be interested in seeing how well ritual is taught and used in chapters nowadays. Even 15-20 years ago, I had people in my chapter complain that it was "too outdated."

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Yes. The article kind of feels like someone hearing something and then going "Oh My Lands, we have to stop this nonsense!" whilst clutching their pearls and swooning without really thinking through it. To be honest, I searched for images of what they referenced and it took some time to find one. Even then, I wouldn't have connected the two.

Actually, I'll amend my first comment. When I first read it, it felt like a "convenient" excuse (to me) to shut down the whole hand symbol trend. Well intentioned or not, those who never liked the trend in the first place (for whatever reason) now had a "reason" to discourage it.

I think amIblue's suggestion of just no longer choosing those images to promote on Kappa's official social media might have been a better way to deal with it.

[robinseggblue]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

Paraphrasing one of my facebook friends:

KKG didn't care when their members were culturally appropriating hand signs from NPHC organizations, but suddenly they care when they are vaguely associated with white hate groups.

The perception of racism is more important than the actual racism. Okay.

But another layer to this is the reaction of NPC alumnae members... "I've always been uncomfortable with this..." they say. Let's be honest - you're uncomfortable because it doesn't seem refined, and it doesn't seem refined because you know it's something black people do.

This is so true. I get very uncomfortable when I see hand signs I know are appropriated from NPHC organizations.

Alpha Phi I'm looking at you.

[amIblue?]

Oh dear. Now there's a FB "protest."

[AZTheta]

/swerve (or is it a crash)

about the whistle: did you know that whistles were used in public places, e.g. train stations, when sorority women were traveling to and from school or other places, so that they could seek out other members? I'm serious. My doctor is also a Theta and we discovered that fact by accident, due to the whistle. It's a long silly story.

The whistle really isn't Ritual, despite what some people may claim. How can it be? It's used in public. Whatever.

/end swerve crash

[SWTXBelle]

I didn't like when we went to the "branding" tagline (Connect. Impact. Shine) seemingly when it became popular because I thought our 4 word summation of our creed (Love. Labor. Learning. Loyalty.) was great, and it had a history.

I didn't like when Gamma Phis started doing the "Gamma" and "moon" signs, because 1. we actually have hand signs, although they are not for public consumption, and 2. it seemed we were jumping on the NPC handsign bandwagon and 3. I thought the "Gamma" one looked especially stupid. Having said that, I wouldn't presume to tell another NPC what they should or shouldn't do. Some of the signs are quite clever, in that they are easily identifiable (the Zeta, A D Pi and Chi O ones I've seen come to mind.)

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

/swerve (or is it a crash)

about the whistle: did you know that whistles were used in public places, e.g. train stations, when sorority women were traveling to and from school or other places, so that they could seek out other members? I'm serious. My doctor is also a Theta and we discovered that fact by accident, due to the whistle. It's a long silly story.

The whistle really isn't Ritual, despite what some people may claim. How can it be? It's used in public. Whatever.

/end swerve crash

That's actually pretty interesting. I didn't think our whistle was ritual (since I don't know it ), but it's cool how things develop.

[Tom Earp]

With all of the PCNess, it could be coneyed as gang signs!

[AZTheta]

SWTXBelle: you know what I think about Theta hand signs - especially the finger across the mouth one, and the ASL vagina sign. Blechhh.

amIblue, one of these days I'll call you and whistle at you! Panhellenically, of course. Not in a weird way.

Oh dear, I'm doing it again. I'm derailing the thread. Must. Stop. Now.

[KDMafia]

The hand signs generally don't bother me but I also don't blame a national organization that doesn't want to high light them or would like to encourage their members to use different ways of identifying themselves.

Hand signals are just what people do. Peace signs, making the heart sign out of hands, pointing, Hook 'em horns, etc.

I actually feel like the best strategy would be either to just wait them out, or figure out a way to redirect the energy into something else, by highlighting other types of pictures.

I remember doing the KD sign when I was in college but at the time we were the only group on our campus, now, all the groups do it and I think it's just become a part of the culture, like spirit jersey's and sunset pictures. It will fade over time.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KDMafia

I remember doing the KD sign when I was in college but at the time we were the only group on our campus, now, all the groups do it and I think it's just become a part of the culture, like spirit jersey's and sunset pictures. It will fade over time.

I certainly hope so. This is campus specific, but I just realized what this reminds me of....putting scroll numbers on jackets. Ugggh. One of the fraternities did it because their scroll numbers DO mean something amongst themselves, and then the sororities just started doing it because it was a cool fraternity. I came back and saw all this and was like funk da whaaa???

If you do something, you should be able to explain why you're doing it and where it came from. "I saw it online" is not a suitable answer. I'm fairly sure that groups who do have signs from back in the day have a reason to explain it, much like AZTheta's explanation of her group's whistle above.

[NutBrnHair]

The ship has already sailed. The horse is out of the barn.

I just don't see what the big deal is.

Chi Omegas have crossed their arms to make Xs and Horseshoes for years. The hand signs are cute and fun.

Each to his/her own.

[robinseggblue]

From the public Facebook protest group (https://www.facebook.com/events/395733897270902)...which one of my Kappa friends invited me to:

Nationals got back to my email on clarification of their blog post

"The Fraternity has not banned hand symbols. However, the Fraternity has decided that we will no longer post any photos of members displaying this KKG hand sign on any official Fraternity communication, which includes our website and our official social media sites. While we encourage our members to help this trend fade away by not posting images with it on their chapter or individual websites or social media sites, we are not requiring members or chapters to remove the photos from their sites. Our objective when sharing the blog post was to let our members know why the Fraternity would no longer be posting images containing the hand sign and to help them understand the possible implications of doing so on their own sites.

Over the course of this fall, we have had several chapter incidents involving photos with members using the KKG hand sign that placed these chapters in jeopardy with their universities and caused significant negative implications within their campus communities. What to some members may be a gesture that symbolizes a sense of sisterhood and unity can often be perceived by others within the Fraternity and our larger publics as offensive.
Perception is reality, even if you disagree or don’t understand the perception. We believe it is valuable for our members to have some background of what that perception is, so they understand what they might be communicating to others when they use the KKG hand sign.

There are many ways to show your Kappa pride. And we welcome photos showcasing our pride - such as the key over the heart, the fleur-de-lis hand sign and the three people forming a K, K and G while standing. We simply are no longer posting photos with the KKG hand sign and are encouraging our members to consider doing the same."

So after all that about hands signs in general they're not even going to stop posting hand signs...just that one sign that they think could maybe be misconstrued.

These are apparently a-ok:



I'm not sure what the point of making that post was then. It would have been better handled quietly.

[33girl]

Okay, this is a get off my lawn post, but "the hand sign is an integral part of being a Kappa today"?? Seriously?

This just really hammers home how much this generation thinks it doesn't exist unless you can take a picture of it and put it on the internet for everyone to see.

On the other hand, if there really was a concrete problem with this, then KKG HQ need to say "ZZZ chapter at Basic Bia U were investigated by their local police because the local police saw their picture and thought they were part of a gang." Just saying "we had several chapter instances" and not naming names doesn't really cut it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

Paraphrasing one of my facebook friends:

KKG didn't care when their members were culturally appropriating hand signs from NPHC organizations, but suddenly they care when they are vaguely associated with white hate groups.

The perception of racism is more important than the actual racism. Okay.

But another layer to this is the reaction of NPC alumnae members... "I've always been uncomfortable with this..." they say. Let's be honest - you're uncomfortable because it doesn't seem refined, and it doesn't seem refined because you know it's something black people do.

Culturally the line when appropriation is homage and when we regard it as theft or insult is interesting to me.

Do you object to NPC groups having hand signs period because recent NPC hand signs come out of the NPHC tradition so are an inappropriate appropriation in all circumstances, or is it more that you feel that the NPC versions of hand signs were invented in a spirit that mocked the original NPHC hand signs?

I think I understand what you are getting at, but it also seems like there's a little damned if you do; damned if you don't aspect to your post. You seem to simultaneously indicated that NPC groups shouldn't appropriate hand signs because the signs are a thing that black people did first, but on the other hand a failure to embrace appropriating the signs is also suspect because it might reflect a reluctance to do something because black people did it first. What NPC members apparently need to do is not throw hand signs but make sure they aren't throwing them for the right reasons, which for some reason amuses me in a medieval scholasticism kind of way.

ETA: I got around to reading the linked article after I read the thread and commented. The context and spirit of your comment is much clearer to me now. That article was a complete unforced error, and your paraphrased facebook comment seems spot on.