High school hazing on The Early Show

[damasa]

Originally posted by AXJules
This girl, who's named in the Chicago Tribune, was there but didn't do anything besides put paint and syrup in their hair. Why should she be denied the right in taking her AP tests? I can understand that they're suspending anyone caught on tape wearing a jersey, but considering she was one of the ones comforting them and trying to help, I think suspension is enough.

Please try to be accurate in what you say....out of the 30 girls that have been suspended about 7 or 8 were the physcial, violent ones. 2 of them were involved w/ the feces thing. Don't assume b/c someone was suspended that every person there was involved in the ass kicking (I know that you're pretty much gulity if you don't step in to stop it, lets not get into that again, lol, I'm just saying that especially with all the news stories available, there's no reason to perpetuate false information.

With all due respect to those that weren't "physical" I think that Good Samaritan Laws could possibly come into play here? Any lawyer types on the board that would like to clarify this? I think that it could be argued that even those bystanders were involved by "cheering the other girls on" or pouring beer or by simply watchign and shouting things at the junior girls. Furthermore, if they didn't step in to stop the physical harm that was taking place. Even if some people were comforting the girls that were beaten, had they stopped it sooner, there might not have been a need to comfort any girl. I'm sorry, but one girl was hit in the head with a bat AND shot in the back with a paint gun several times? Another strangled with pig intestines, another girl had an ankle broken, and there were other various injuries. Seriously, what is the difference between something like this and a gan initiation? Is it different simply because it took place in "suburban America?" And some of these parents with their comments leave me dumbfounded to no end. I would like to see some of these people found guilty of criminal charges and possibly civil damages. Maybe the victims will go after their assailant's dependants (parents). It could put a whole different perspective on the way some of these parents think of the situation.

"Hit em in the pocket books"

[AXJules]

I know about good samaritan laws, which is why I said legally she'd be guilty since she was a bystander. But I think its crazy to give the same penalty to two people who acted very differently.
That's like giving the death penalty to a serial killer and a kid who steals from the grocery store. Should she have stepped in? Of course, along with the other 100 students there. But the "feces girls" if you will, were premeditated...they went there with the intentions of being sadistic. Half the senior girls thought they were going to put food in people's hair, and those three went there with the intention of hurting someone.

[AXJules]

Originally posted by 33girl
OK, among all the other stuff, I'm in awe of this. Does GBN just have a very low fertility rate, or do the girls have to quit as soon as they find out they have a bun in the oven?

You don't have to quit. I'm pretty sure the rule is that you can go to school up until the 6th or 7th month, whenever you start showing...she contested it but wound up leaving around the 7th, I think...either way my point was that she's the only one in the 4 years I was there that had a kid.

As far as the statistic being surprising, kids at GBN just don't drop out of school. My grad year I think the dropout rate was 2% for all of GBN, but that sounds kind of high....There's too much pressure to go on to college, or at least graduate. No one ever gets pregnant either, although I'm not going to elaborate on that.

Originally posted by 33girl
OK, among all the other stuff, I'm in awe of this. Does GBN just have a very low fertility rate, or do the girls have to quit as soon as they find out they have a bun in the oven?

I thought just the opposite... do some schools allow girls to keep going after they reach a certain point? In my high school, the rule if you were married was "when you show, you go". I don't know what it was if you weren't married, I don't think it ever happened, at least while I was there. I guess I thought it was that way everywhere.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

First of all, 81 is not a high number of students from GBN to be going to Northwestern next year.

Second, I don't remember ever having to fill anything out about my conduct between my acceptance to U of I and the start of school.

Third, the reason that a 10-day suspension is so upsetting is that this week and next are AP weeks. If you don't show up, you get no credit for a year's worth of work. These girls could be planning to take up to 10 exams, as is common at GBN.

Just stating fact, because I haven't formed opinions just yet.

[damasa]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby


Third, the reason that a 10-day suspension is so upsetting is that this week and next are AP weeks. If you don't show up, you get no credit for a year's worth of work. These girls could be planning to take up to 10 exams, as is common at GBN.

This I understand, but they should have thought about the consequences before they started "beating ass" and doing a number of other horrible things to some of these girls.

Let it be upsetting, I'm sure the girls that were victim to some of their actions are pretty damn upset as well. So they don't get credit for a year worth of work? Hell they should be lucky they are still being granted a diploma and not being forced to finish at technical school to receive a GED.

Not knocking anyone, but hey, they could be upset that they can't take these exams.....but what about the girls that were beaten/hazed/humiliated?! I say these girls are lucky as all hell if they only receive a 10 day suspension.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by damasa
This I understand, but they should have thought about the consequences before they started "beating ass" and doing a number of other horrible things to some of these girls.

Let it be upsetting, I'm sure the girls that were victim to some of their actions are pretty damn upset as well. So they don't get credit for a year worth of work? Hell they should be lucky they are still being granted a diploma and not being forced to finish at technical school to receive a GED.

Not knocking anyone, but hey, they could be upset that they can't take these exams.....but what about the girls that were beaten/hazed/humiliated?! I say these girls are lucky as all hell if they only receive a 10 day suspension.

I definately agree with damasa here..

[AXJules]

I'm in agreement with you guys....but I think a 10 day suspension is sufficient for someone who wasn't violent. With or without those AP tests she could still get her college acceptances revoked just because of the bad press. Maybe she deserves that, who knows. She never decided to beat ass......she failed to help someone in trouble, and that deserves a 10 day suspension.

I just remembered what else i wanted to say----the juniors are being suspended too. Didn't think any of you knew that....

[momoftwo]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby
First of all, 81 is not a high number of students from GBN to be going to Northwestern next year.

81 going to Northwestern would mean that nearly 20% of the Senior class was going to Northwestern. I don't think that many kids want to stay THAT close to home. I think the reporter misunderstood the stats on the GBN website. Since 1999, 81 GBN students who applied to NU were accepted. 34 of those actually attended Northwestern. This year's Seniors are some percentage of that 34.

[IowaHawkeye]

Originally posted by AXJules
But the "feces girls" if you will, were premeditated...they went there with the intentions of being sadistic. .

ugh.. the WHOLE THING was premeditated!! you described earlier that the seniors plan it and invite girls but don't let them know where to meet until 15 minutes before it starts! that sounds "premeditated" to me. how i see it - everyone who went was sadistic

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by momoftwo
81 going to Northwestern would mean that nearly 20% of the Senior class was going to Northwestern. I don't think that many kids want to stay THAT close to home. I think the reporter misunderstood the stats on the GBN website. Since 1999, 81 GBN students who applied to NU were accepted. 34 of those actually attended Northwestern. This year's Seniors are some percentage of that 34.

Sorry, I stand corrected.

[AXJules]

Originally posted by IowaHawkeye
ugh.. the WHOLE THING was premeditated!! you described earlier that the seniors plan it and invite girls but don't let them know where to meet until 15 minutes before it starts! that sounds "premeditated" to me. how i see it - everyone who went was sadistic

You're right, ALL juniors and seniors had premeditated plans.... to go to a park, and dump food on each other!! There were originally more people who left after the kegs were dry and before the juniors even got there....that sounds like everyone was under the belief it was going to be a social event.

3 girls premeditated to inflict harm. THEY were sadistic. Stop grouping people together who are at two opposite ends of the spectrum

[DeltAlum]

More thoughts on above posts:

I think it's important not to expand the hysteria by sending it in both directions.

It's not possible to be less pregnant than someone else -- you either are or you're not, but it is possible to be guilty of something to a lesser extent. That's why we have first degree murder, second degree murder and manslaughter. So, I think it might be appropriate for the penalties to be different for varying degrees of involvement.

In terms of a ten day suspension ruining someone's life. That's ridiculous. It might mean they have to go to a "lesser" college than they wanted, but that's life. They'll survive. It could be that they won't get into law school or medical school, but those are the consequences.

In terms of the junior girls getting the same suspensions, I think that's a gross injustice. They are guilty of voluntary participation in a banned event -- but not of assault and battery that I can see. Some type of penalty may be appropriate, but not the same as the seniors.

Are there really enough hours in a school day to take 10 AP classes in one year? Do they take AP electives? AP extracurriculars? Question: If you're deathly sick the day your AP test is given, how do you make it up? I'll bet there will be a way for these girls to take the test and get the credit.

The civil penalities may well be much worse than any criminal judgements. Probation or community service/fines may be likely for the criminal charges, but civil suits could be really damaging to the girls and their parents.

I could be totally incorrect (often am), but I think Good Samaritan laws are to protect people who attempt first aid or CPR. I'm not sure they apply to those who are injured trying to stop a fight. Maybe one of our lawyers can enlighten us on this. That does not, in any way, excuse those who stood by and watched this carnage, though. That's reprehensible, but I'm not sure any legal action can be taken against them.

As I understand the admissions officers, the student isn't asked questions about their character and senior year -- the guidance counselors are.

The girl who allegedly had graduated and reportedly brought a bat should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That was obviously premeditated.

Finally, it seems to me that the school officials need to take one step back, truly evaluate the situation and weigh appropriate action. Seems to me they first tried to cover their behinds, then perhaps overreacted in some cases.

[IowaHawkeye]

Originally posted by AXJules
3 girls premeditated to inflict harm. THEY were sadistic. Stop grouping people together who are at two opposite ends of the spectrum

This whole situation left the outside world free to interpret their behavior as they saw it...

Personally, anyone who would want to dump food on people, beat people, throw feces and animal parts on people - sounds pretty sadistic to me.

At my high school - we had our own little informal type "crowning" of the new seniors (current juniors)...

we gave them our old high school shirts we didn't want, we handed our coveted lockers down to friends, we handed down the "cool" lunchroom tables, we gave up our parking spots. The juniors, in turn, game us flowers, candy, and cards to wish us well.


A lot of people here at Iowa asked me about this whole situation since I'm from the chicago 'burbs. They wanted to know if this was something every high school does. Most of them figured my high school did because it was all-girls and as this video displayed perfectly, girls are catty and hold grudges (inviting girls who looked at them wrong to get crap poured on them). It didn't happen at my school...

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by 33girl
OK, among all the other stuff, I'm in awe of this. Does GBN just have a very low fertility rate, or do the girls have to quit as soon as they find out they have a bun in the oven?

I'm from a WI high school that could pretty much be GBN. At my HS, once a girl was preggers, she would voluntarily leave school as soon as the bun began rising, or her parents would pull her out in shame. It was VERY frowned upon. This doesn't mean sex wasn't going on - it was protected, or you got an abortion.