The first sorority to demand equal rights

[aopirose]

Men with numbers - I saw a wedding announcement where the bride was the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. John H. Doe XXIV. Her grandparents were Mr. and Mrs. John H. Doe XXIII. Her brother, Mr. John H. Doe XXV, was a groomsman. I had never seen a name continuing like that.

Also, what about George Forman and his five sons who all share his name? Let's say that George Forman III is the first to have a son. Would he be George Forman VII? Let's say that George Forman II has a son next. Would that son be George Forman VIII?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by aopirose

I found this book, Radical Pacifism: The War Resisters League and Gandhian Nonviolence in America, 1915-1963 by Scott H. Bennett. Jessie was a founder of The War Resisters League and for many years it was headquartered in her home. The organization is still going strong today.

When she was younger she attended, Northfield Seminary which was a Congregationalist female boarding school. It is non-sectarian now but I have often wondered if those Congregationalist views are what partly helped to form her views. Jessie also wrote several books on socialism and was a member of the Socialist Party. She even published anti-war poetry.

I searched in the NY Times archives and there are some early articles involving her. Unfortunately, there is a fee involved to see the majority of them.

Another of our founders, Stella George Stern Perry, was heavily involved with women's and children's welfare issues. It was through her that we adopted the child labor issue.

Thanks.

*****

My siblings and I were taught my parents' entire names when we were very little. Part of that has to do with having seen their IDs and photos from youth and college days so we knew all of their names. So, when I wasn't calling her "mom" all the time, I was playfully calling my mom by her first, middle, maiden and last names all of my life.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by aopirose

Also, what about George Forman and his five sons who all share his name? Let's say that George Forman III is the first to have a son. Would he be George Forman VII? Let's say that George Forman II has a son next. Would that son be George Forman VIII?

Good one.

As I understand it, the numbering system may be used in two ways. First for a direct line where all the men are directly descended from the original name. Second, the numbers may be used within an extend family to show the order of the name given within the extend family.

Generally, numbers are "assigned" by generations. Thus the 1st/Senior would be the first generation. 2nd/Junior/II would be the next generation. 3rd/III the third generation. And so on. This works well when the names are given to a direct lineage - i.e. Grandfather, Father, and Son.

Now as I mentioned before, "Junior" - who is the 2nd generation son - may not have any sons or any children for that matter. However, his brother may have a son and decide to name his son "3rd" in honor of both the son's uncle (2nd generation) and the son's Grandfather (1st generation). Now for sake of discussion, lets say that "Junior" has a son. Since his brother has already named his son the 3rd. "Junior" has two options. He could name his son 3rd showing that he is the third generation in the direct line to have that name. Or he may elect to name his son 4th. To show that he is the 4th *person* within the whole extended family to have that name. I know of both scenarios being used.

So with respect to Mr. Forman, since his sons are all within the same generation, it appears he is using the numbers to show the number of sons in the same family with the same name. So my guess is as you noted above. If Mr. George Forman III has the first son, he would be named George Forman VII. And Mr. George Forman II's son would be George Forman VIII.

[tld221]

i knew a III in HS (well call him Jim Doe) and he was vehemently against naming his future son Jim Doe IV. now lets say, for example, that John Doe (the son that got skipped over), years down the line wants to pick up tradition again and has a son, does that son get to be Jim Doe IV or do they start over, having him be John Doe Jr.?

[ISUKappa]

My boss is a III. His oldest son is a IV only because they were surprised he was a boy when he was born (they had paid for an u/s to find out the sex and were told it was a girl) and they didn't have any boy names picked out.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

And then there's the hispanic naming conventions where the children take both the father and the mother's surnames. Some women never drop those surnames as their "maiden name" and just add their husband's name with "de X" after their proper full surname.

I just have to say that i'm not sure about all "hispanics" but using "de" is not very common in Mexican tradition. So many women just add the husband's last name to the end w/o the "de." In fact, I haven't heard of using "de" until you mentioned it.

And for children (if i can remember correctly) its Firstname Middlename father'slastname mother'smaidenname.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by tld221

i knew a III in HS (well call him Jim Doe) and he was vehemently against naming his future son Jim Doe IV. now lets say, for example, that John Doe (the son that got skipped over), years down the line wants to pick up tradition again and has a son, does that son get to be Jim Doe IV or do they start over, having him be John Doe Jr.?

As I understand it, John Doe (the son that was skipped) would be able to pick up the tradition and name his son Jim Doe IV. The reason is that John Doe's son is the forth *Jim* Doe in the family.

And if John Doe decided to name his son John Doe after himself, then his son would be a junior/2nd. And for what it is worth, generally speaking "Junior" is used for a son within the same direct lineage, while 2nd/II is used when a generation is either skipped or it is not a direct lineage.

Here are a few possible scenarios that I am personally acquainted with either via my family and/or friends.

Scenario One - direct lineage
Generation 1: John Doe (farther)
Generation 2: John Doe, Junior (son of John Doe) ------ Frank Doe (brother of John Doe, Junior and son of John Doe)
Generation 3: John Doe, III (son of John Doe, Junior)
Generation 4: John Doe, IV (son of John Doe III)

Scenario Two - Son has no male offspring - indirect lineage
Generation 1: John Doe (farther)
Generation 2: John Doe, Junior (son of John Doe) [no sons] ------ Frank Doe (brother of John Doe, Junior and son of John Doe)
Generation 3: John Doe, III (son of Frank Doe)
Generation 4: John Doe, IV (son of John Doe, III)

Scenario Three - Name skips a generation, but also direct lineage (with a twist)
Generation 1: John Doe (farther)
Generation 2: Frank Doe (son of John Doe) [name skipped]
Generation 3: John Doe, II (son of Frank Doe) *and* Frank Doe, Junior (brother of John Doe II, son of Frank Doe)
Generation 4: John Doe, III (son of John Doe II and cousin of Frank Doe, III) *and* Frank Doe, III (son of Frank Doe, Junior and cousin of John Doe, III)

[catiebug]

In Chile, many women are starting to use the "de" with their husband's last name. For instance, if a woman's name is Maria Mercedes Santiago Serena (she would sign her name Maria Mercedes Santiago S.), she might style herself Maria Mercedes Santiago de Balboa.

Originally Posted by epchick

I just have to say that i'm not sure about all "hispanics" but using "de" is not very common in Mexican tradition. So many women just add the husband's last name to the end w/o the "de." In fact, I haven't heard of using "de" until you mentioned it.

And for children (if i can remember correctly) its Firstname Middlename father'slastname mother'smaidenname.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Miss Manners would always stress, though, that a person's choices always trump the "rules." In other words, you call people what they want to be called, and it is rude to do otherwise. When a person introduces himself as Lord Henry Higginbottom the Eighth, that's what you call him. If an older person insists that you call her by her first name, not "Mrs. Jones," you oblige her.

I am a HUGE Miss Manners fan.

Oh, I'd never be one of those rude, overbearing people who "corrects" someone as to his/her own name - it would just irritate me. But that's the cross I bear with many seemingly forgotten elements of etiquette.

[barbino]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Psst - Carrie Chapman Catt was a member of Iowa Gamma (chartered as Mu chapter of IC Sorosis/Pi Beta Phi) at Iowa State Agricultural College, now known as Iowa State University. Catt hall is a lovely old building that houses Liberal Arts and Sciences and has a beautiful engraved brick "Plaza of Heroines."

Definitely *not* the University of Iowa, as any good Iowa State grad will tell you.

Thanks-
I did not do the research over before I posted & thought that it might have been Iowa State - I checked with Wikipedia later & knew that it was wrong- but at least I got the state right. It also seems that Carrie Chapman Catt was an associate of Susan B. Anthony.

[oncegreek]

I couldn't any reference to this anywhere else in this thread, but Kappa Alpha Theta has a very famous, and influential, early member. Julia Morgan was a famous architect in the early twentieth century,and she was a member of the Berkeley Theta chapter. Morgan studied architecture at Berkeley, and later in Paris. She designed the Theta house at Cal (I read this somewhere), and most of the buildings at Mills College in Oakland. Julia Morgan is best known for designing Hearst Castle.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by TSteven

As I understand it, John Doe (the son that was skipped) would be able to pick up the tradition and name his son Jim Doe IV. The reason is that John Doe's son is the forth *Jim* Doe in the family.

And if John Doe decided to name his son John Doe after himself, then his son would be a junior/2nd. And for what it is worth, generally speaking "Junior" is used for a son within the same direct lineage, while 2nd/II is used when a generation is either skipped or it is not a direct lineage.

Here are a few possible scenarios that I am personally acquainted with either via my family and/or friends.

Scenario One - direct lineage
Generation 1: John Doe (farther)
Generation 2: John Doe, Junior (son of John Doe) ------ Frank Doe (brother of John Doe, Junior and son of John Doe)
Generation 3: John Doe, III (son of John Doe, Junior)
Generation 4: John Doe, IV (son of John Doe III)

Scenario Two - Son has no male offspring - indirect lineage
Generation 1: John Doe (farther)
Generation 2: John Doe, Junior (son of John Doe) [no sons] ------ Frank Doe (brother of John Doe, Junior and son of John Doe)
Generation 3: John Doe, III (son of Frank Doe)
Generation 4: John Doe, IV (son of John Doe, III)

Scenario Three - Name skips a generation, but also direct lineage (with a twist)
Generation 1: John Doe (farther)
Generation 2: Frank Doe (son of John Doe) [name skipped]
Generation 3: John Doe, II (son of Frank Doe) *and* Frank Doe, Junior (brother of John Doe II, son of Frank Doe)
Generation 4: John Doe, III (son of John Doe II and cousin of Frank Doe, III) *and* Frank Doe, III (son of Frank Doe, Junior and cousin of John Doe, III)

OK i suppose this makes sense...

and now to take the thread even more off-course:

Teenager in Anheuser-Busch family accused of underage drinking
NEWS WIRE SERVICES
Friday, March 28th 2008, 4:00 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_w...accused-1.html

GODFREY, Ill. - A teenage descendant of the beer-making Anheuser-Busch family has been accused of underage drinking.

Adolphus August Busch 5th, age 17, was arrested with eight other teens at a party Wednesday night. Busch is the grandson of the late August Busch Jr.

"Neither this individual, nor his parents, are employees of Anheuser-Busch. This company, therefore, has no involvement in this matter," said a spokesman for the company, which makes Budweiser and Michelob.

Investigators say the teens were drinking Natural Light - an Anheuser-Busch product - and rum and cokes.

Busch is free on $100 bond.

from Busch Jr to Busch 5th, that's one too many generations from grandfather to grandson. what happened?

and really, do i need to state the obvious on this story?

[pbear19]

Possibly August Busch's first name was not Adolphus? Then the 5th would be the 5th in a different line, not the exact same as Jr's namesake...

Just guessing.

[catiebug]

Or nephews, uncles or cousins are already II-IV.

[nittanyalum]

Looping the conversation back around to women's/equal rights, this article was in The Wall Street Journal today. I know some will get stuck on the point that Hillary Clinton is a focus of the article, but try to look past the political aspects, it reveals interesting (and disturbing, IMO) trends in regards to women, especially in the workplace... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1206...we_banner_left