Down Low Brothas

[Virtual Violet]

Originally posted by laidbackfella
I am a Heterosexual Man who does not want, need, nor seek the touch of a male. My ONLY choice is a woman. Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.

Just a few tips for the ladies. I am tired of hearing DL Brothas being used as the main reason why AIDS is on the rise. Ladies, YOU, have to take responsibility for what goes on as far as your health is concerned.

Trust is one thing, but you can't simply be a passenger in your life and let someone take you for a ride.

1. Always use protection. It's just not safe anymore.

2. If he doesn't want to use protection, INSIST on getting a test every three months.

3. If you suspect that he is steppin out, with a male or female, stop having sex with him.

4. Talk about sex BEFORE you have sex. A lot of y'all wanna be spontaneous. Take time and find out about his practices before you "Get Busy".

5. It's OK to tell a man NO. It's your body. It's your perogative.

This 'discovery' of Black Men on the DL is another link in the unraveling of our Black Community. I will postulate on the exact ramifications but know that this is tearing us apart. Soon you will only have a few "choice" as far as mainstream thought is concerned to date.

Don't trust your man, Trust yourself.

No truer words were ever said. The thing is, this isn't the first time some of us have heard this message....I'm sure some of my Sorors remember the fact that J.L. King was a speaker at our 2002 National Convention in Atlanta, and at times was hard pressed to sell his tapes in the vendor area. However, but he had no lack of phone numbers being thrown at him BEFORE his speech.

WE NEED TO HEED THE MESSAGE and take responsibility for ourselves, and ask the questions we need answered.

Think of it this way, if you can't have a frank and intimate conversation about sex, should you be "sleeping" with him in the first place !!

[deuika]

Originally posted by Virtual Violet


Think of it this way, if you can't have a frank and intimate conversation about sex, should you be "sleeping" with him in the first place !!

*APPLAUSE*

As the Commercial says "If you aren't talking about it, what are you really saying?"

[DELTABRAT]

Good advice for the single sistahs who may have boyfriends/sig others but as I wrote to the Keith Boykins fellow, what about women who are married? Also, I am sick of hearing that this is some ploy to take responsibility off of heterosexual women who have lost their "Get out of AIDS free card, now" and the fact thatw e are not empowered to make sexual decisions that affect our lives when one of the main tenets of empowerment is OPEN COMMUNICATION. So if I ask my husband if he is having ANY extramarital affairs and he says no, I'm pissed. When those extramarital affairs ups the ante on me being infected with HIV, I'm doubly pissed because he LIED!!!This also robs me of my right to exercise my empowerment to the fullest.

I agree with the "strap it up" sentiment but I really don't think that DL men empathize with a women who has been married for 14 years and has had three kids with a man who leaves her for another man. It's bothersome not to mention risky.

Also, HIV transmission from males to females occurs more effectively than from females to males. This greater risk seems to be true for most sexually transmitted diseases: the female is at greater risk. ("Receptive partner" can be substituted for "female" in case of homosexual sex) A male's exposure to the female (or receptive partner) is fleeting; but the male leaves potentially contaminated semen in the vagina. Usually the semen remains in the female long after intercourse is over. The longer a person is exposed to germs, the more likely he or she is to catch the disease.

Male to female: If the male is infected, he deposits HIV-infected semen inside the female's vagina. Again, previously it was thought that inside a female's vagina, small wounds and bleeding may occur during sex or for a number of reasons, providing a doorway for HIV into the bloodstream. Bleeding wounds inside the vagina are probably not necessary.

Additionally, HIV is founf in higher concentrations in semen compared to vaginal fluids. Not that it doesn't happen but DANG!!!

[CrimsonTide4]

I thought about this yesterday on my way to work but got sidetracked. How helpful do you think it would be to write Oprah to conduct a SERIES on AIDS as it effects the Black community?


What do you think our orgs should do or be doing to educate the community more on AIDS in the BLACK COMMUNITY? What does your chapter do or have plans to do?

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by Professor
LOL - are you suggesting women give anal exams. If it does not bother a man, then one may be gay - lol. From what I hear if you are on DL then you are a giver and not a receiver - not that it makes any difference.

LOL - I am suggesting that women take a look. She can simply use her EYES. It seems to me that if you are a receiver, there MUST be some difference in appearance. I didn't know about the giving vs. receiving wrt the DL and of course some brothers may have better elasticity than others so there may be nothing to see at all but it might be worth a shot.

SC

[ladyjag99]

Originally posted by SummerChild
LOL - I am suggesting that women take a look. She can simply use her EYES. It seems to me that if you are a receiver, there MUST be some difference in appearance. I didn't know about the giving vs. receiving wrt the DL and of course some brothers may have better elasticity than others so there may be nothing to see at all but it might be worth a shot.

SC

Um...have you given this "examination" to your own man? Was he ok with you examining him like that? Like 1sd said, men get really antsy if their woman is prowling around that area.

IMO, if I have to resort to such childish measures like examining his anus to find out if my man is living life on the DL, I'd rather kick him to the curb and be done with it. Nuh-uh. Ain't no dude on the planet that's worth all of that mess.

[UpPinkies]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
I thought about this yesterday on my way to work but got sidetracked. How helpful do you think it would be to write Oprah to conduct a SERIES on AIDS as it effects the Black community?


What do you think our orgs should do or be doing to educate the community more on AIDS in the BLACK COMMUNITY? What does your chapter do or have plans to do?

You know what, you just brought up an excellent idea!!! This is something that I would love to do because I feel the black community is still a little behind on the issues of AIDS. I know at my university they bring in speakers, doctors, researchers who are HIV/AIDS positive or who work in the environment of HIV/AIDS positive people. Sometimes different sororities are co-sponsors of the events. No matter who is the sponsor of the event, I try to get the word out to come and learn something. The last speaker they had was a guy from this area and he told the audience somethings that were no joke. Had people talking about his speech for a long time and I think that his speech has a real impact because he was able to tie it into the local community so people could see that you can become infected anywhere.

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by ladyjag99
Um...have you given this "examination" to your own man? Was he ok with you examining him like that? Like 1sd said, men get really antsy if their woman is prowling around that area.

IMO, if I have to resort to such childish measures like examining his anus to find out if my man is living life on the DL, I'd rather kick him to the curb and be done with it. Nuh-uh. Ain't no dude on the planet that's worth all of that mess.

Well since I recently heard of the test and have chosen not to be sexually active for some time since before I have heard of the test, no I have not been able to give this test. Further, it's really a last ditch effort for women who have reason to believe who are trying to grasp on to whatever they can. I have never been in this position. The posts seem to indicate that some people were interested in hearing about options that might help to detemrine what's going on if one has a question. If you don't like the suggestion, then simply overlook it. It's neither here nor there.

What you consider childish might be something that another woman may consider a very real option. This recommendation was actually passed on to me by other women so I am not the first to hear of this. And yes, many a man would not mind his woman taking a peek at his behind.
SC

[Professor]

Well, I would have to say that these men are on the DL

And yes, many a man would not mind his woman taking a peek at his behind.
SC [/B][/QUOTE]

[CrimsonTide4]

I was just e-mailed the transcript from the show, 31 pages, MS Word Document. I hesitate to post it here for copyright and length reasons. If anyone who missed the show or just wants a copy, hit me up on my Yahoo account and please put GC in the title if you have never ever e-mailed me before.

ETA: There is also at the end of the transcript is an article, I believe to be from the New York Times, here is a brief excerpt:


FULL-LENGTH ARTICLE
MAGAZINE DESK | August 3, 2003, Sunday
Double Lives On The Down Low
By Benoit Denizet-Lewis (NYT) 7969 words
Late Edition - Final , Section 6 , Page 28 , Column 1
ABSTRACT - Benoit Denizet-Lewis article explores phenomenon of subculture called Down Low, or DL, which encompasses black men who have sex with other men but otherwise live straight lives; says they are products of culture that deems masculinity and fatherhood as black man's primary responsibility, and homosexuality as white man's perversion; says that while blacks make up only 12 percent of population in US, they account for half of all new reported HIV infections; says mainstream gay world has fought AIDS mostly among white, openly gay men and has little interest in minorities who do not identify as gay; says DL culture is expanding and is alarming to public health officials because men may spread infection to wives or girlfriends; says many blacks see DL as announcement of masculinity and separation from white gay culture, and thus many reject condom use; profiles several men who embrace DL culture; photos (L)
Double Lives on the Down Low
By Benoit Denizet-Lewis

In its upper stories, the Flex bathhouse in Cleveland feels like a squash club for backslapping businessmen. There's a large gym with free weights and exercise machines on the third floor. In the common area, on the main floor, men in towels lounge on couches and watch CNN on big-screen TV's.

In the basement, the mood is different: the TV's are tuned to porn, and the dimly lighted hallways buzz with sexual energy. A naked black man reclines on a sling in a room called ''the dungeon play area.'' Along a hallway lined with lockers, black men eye each other as they walk by in towels. In small rooms nearby, some men are having sex. Others are napping.

There are two bathhouses in Cleveland. On the city's predominantly white West Side, Club Cleveland -- which opened in 1965 and recently settled into a modern 15,000-square-foot space -- attracts many white and openly gay men. Flex is on the East Side, and it serves a mostly black and Hispanic clientele, many of whom don't consider themselves gay. (Flex recently shut its doors temporarily while it relocates.)

I go to Flex one night to meet Ricardo Wallace, an African-American outreach worker for the AIDS Task Force of Cleveland who comes here twice a month to test men for H.I.V. I eventually find him sitting alone on a twin-size bed in a small room on the main floor. Next to him on the bed are a dozen unopened condoms and several oral H.I.V.-testing kits.

Twenty years ago, Wallace came here for fun. He was 22 then, and AIDS seemed to kill only gay white men in San Francisco and New York. Wallace and the other black men who frequented Flex in the early 80's worried just about being spotted walking in the front door.
Today, while there are black men who are openly gay, it seems that the majority of those having sex with men still lead secret lives, products of a black culture that deems masculinity and fatherhood as a black man's primary responsibility -- and homosexuality as a white man's perversion. And while Flex now offers baskets of condoms and lubricant, Wallace says that many of the club's patrons still don't use them.




Edited one more time, there is a lot here including these statistics:

Some HIV/AIDS Statistics

The Chicago Tribune recently reported that AIDS is the number one cause of death for African Americans between the ages of 25 and 44. Once again, AIDS is on the rise, in the United States and around the world. More women, more college students and more people over the age of 50 are at greater risk than ever before. It's really something you need to know about.
The estimated number of deaths of Americans who have died of AIDS since the disease's first appearance in the early '80s is over 500,000.
The number of new infections is estimated at 40,000/year for the past decade.
It is estimated that of the 850,000–950,000 Americans living with HIV one in four are unaware of their infection.
An estimated two-thirds of new cases come from people who are unaware that they are infected with HIV.
In 2000, HIV/AIDS was among the top three causes of death for African-American men ages 25–54 and African-American women ages 35–44.
Black women account for 72% of all the new HIV cases in women.
67% of black women with HIV contracted it from heterosexual sex.
African American women are 23 times more times likely to be infected with AIDS than white women.
African American men are almost nine times more likely to be infected with AIDS than white men.
Seniors represent an estimated 14% of total AIDS cases, and senior women represent 18% of female AIDS cases.

Source: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (www.cdc.gov)

[ladyjag99]

Originally posted by SummerChild
Well since I recently heard of the test and have chosen not to be sexually active for some time since before I have heard of the test, no I have not been able to give this test. Further, it's really a last ditch effort for women who have reason to believe who are trying to grasp on to whatever they can. I have never been in this position. The posts seem to indicate that some people were interested in hearing about options that might help to detemrine what's going on if one has a question. If you don't like the suggestion, then simply overlook it. It's neither here nor there.

What you consider childish might be something that another woman may consider a very real option. This recommendation was actually passed on to me by other women so I am not the first to hear of this. And yes, many a man would not mind his woman taking a peek at his behind.
SC

Point taken. My friend made an eloquent statement that about sums up my feelings: "What kind of relationship exists if your a** is trusted more than your mouth?"

I feel EXTREMELY sorry for the poor woman who actually implements or gives your suggestion serious consideration. There is soo many things wrong with the suggestion that to even attempt it would just be a waste of time.

[DELTABRAT]

Originally posted by SummerChild
LOL - I am suggesting that women take a look. She can simply use her EYES. It seems to me that if you are a receiver, there MUST be some difference in appearance. I didn't know about the giving vs. receiving wrt the DL and of course some brothers may have better elasticity than others so there may be nothing to see at all but it might be worth a shot.

SC

With respect to this, I remember giving my SO a full body massage somewhere within the first year that I met him and when I got to the "booty cheek" area, he got really tense and could've snapped a pencil in two had there been one "there." I was like "it's alright." He was like "naw, don't be doin' all that" type of deal not, "Uhm-humm...I like it there girl." So I had to assume at that time that he hadn't had anything down there before...that's until I asked straight up "You on the DL?" He's pretty much sick of the DL or the MSMW but I cares not!

[1savvydiva]

Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
I was just e-mailed the transcript from the show, 31 pages, MS Word Document. I hesitate to post it here for copyright and length reasons. If anyone who missed the show or just wants a copy, hit me up on my Yahoo account and please put GC in the title if you have never ever e-mailed me before.

CT4...I remember reading this article a while back and was like .

[AKA2D '91]

FYI


Benoit Denizet-Lewis, who has written extensively about AIDS for the
New York Times
Magazine, will lead the panel discussion "Black Men on the DL: The
Impact of HIV/AIDS
On The African American Community," April 29 at 6 p.m. in the Tulane
University School
of Medicine Auditorium, 1430 Tulane Avenue. The panel will examine how
the increase
in HIV/AIDS cases among the African-American heterosexual population
may be linked
to the practices of bisexual African-American males. The event will
include free HIV
testing and counseling. Free and open to the public. Sponsored by The
Society of Young
Black Public Health Professionals, Brotherhood, Inc. and Excelth
Primary Health Care
Network, Inc. Call (504) 883-2682 for more information.

[CrimsonTide4]

An open letter to black women ( from a man on the downlow)

by Rayman Jackson

First of all, I would like to say emphatically that to all black women - I LOVE YOU!!!!. I respect you. I adore you. To me, there is nothing more powerful nor more sexy nor more divine than seeing you walk proudly in the sunlight of your blackness, your femininity, your sexuality, your sass, your strength, and your spirituality.

But sometimes, I want to taste a man.....

Black woman, to me, you are God's gift to the entire world. All the women of the world want to be like you. They seek to emulate the beauty of your full lips, your broadened nose, your wide hips, and even the crown of hair upon your head. They try to talk like you, they try to walk like you, they even try to swivel their head and pop their gum like you. But, they just can't be you. Only a black woman can be like a black woman.

But sometimes, I want to feel a man.....

There is nothing like making love to a black woman. I never have, nor do I ever plan to merge my body with any woman other than a black woman. There is something about our flesh when it comes together, when our sweat drips from one to the other, and when our sweet juices run together. I love to feel
your body when you reach climax and when your loins contract tighter and tighter and then release. I love to hear you when
you moan and groan and finally sigh and collapse back into the sheets.

But sometimes, I want to experience a man...

One day, I plan to walk down that aisle and begin a new life with a black woman. I want you, a black woman, to be the mother of my children, the grandmother of my grandchildren, and the great-grandmother of my great-grandchildren. I want my legacy and my destiny to be forever etched with you - A BLACK WOMAN. No other woman will do.

But sometimes, I need to be inside a man...

Not any man, he has to be a black man. Not white, not Asian, not Hispanic. He has to be black.

Sometimes, I don't know why, but sometimes I just want to feel the warm, hard body of another black man laying under my body. Sometimes, I long to hear another man's groan, just like I long to hear your groans. Late in the night, I want to hear him moaning deeply, just like I want to hear you moaning. I desire to feel his body tense up as my manhood enters him just like I desire to feel your body tense up as my manhood enters you. Sometimes, I want to just feel his full round lips wrapped around my manhood
just like desire to feel your sweet lips wrapped around my manhood. Sometimes, I just need to pour my juices into another man just like I need to pour my juices into you.

Yes, sometimes I want to taste, touch, feel, penetrate, and experience a man...

And, when I want a man - I WANT A MAN. I don't want some brother who thinks he's a woman or tries to act like one. If I want a woman, I'll get a woman. But, when I want a man, I want a hard, strong, masculine black man. I want a man who's just as manly as me. I want to enter him deeply. I want to feel my pelvis against his buttocks, my chest against his back, and my sweaty
skin against his sweaty skin.

I'm not trying to love a man or kiss a man or any of that. I just want to go inside him. There's something about the hardness of his body and the tightness of his backside that makes me want to taste what he's got.

It's not that I don't love black women, I just like to feel myself inside a man.....

It's not that I'm gay, homosexual, bisexual or any of those things. I don't claim any of those titles and so if you ask me if I'm gay, homo, or bi - I'll tell you "No". I'm just a brother that knows what he likes. That's all.

Now, if you ask me if I have sex with men, I'll tell you "No". Yes, I know that lying is wrong and God don't like ugly. But, if I laid with you, and made sweet love to you, and then told you that sometimes I like to go inside a man....you wouldn't want me. Our relationship would be over. And, more than likely, you would "warn" your friends about me. And so, I lie. Not because I am trying to deceive you, but because I just don't think you need to know. All it will do is destroy what we have.

You see, honesty is not as simple as you think....

One day I'll stop, I'll settle down with my black queen. I can't promise that I'll completely stop experiencing men. There's just something about it that draws me. But, I do know that I won't do it nearly as much. Well, I don't know that, but I don't think I'll do it as much.

To the woman I will one day marry : I promise to be a good husband, and a good father to our children, and a good grandfather to our children. I'll love you, and protect you, and cherish you, and make you laugh, and dry your tears, try to give you the kind of home you have always wanted, and do my best to make your life as happy as it can be.

But sometimes, I'll still want a man......

Rayman Jackson


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There truly are no words. PROTECT YOURSELF!!!!