Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[dgdramadawg]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so I may be repeating someone:

This thread refers to a large school with a competitive recruitment. When I think of that sort of school, I think of recruitments like Ole Miss, Alabama, UGA, LSU, etc. Let's face it: the grand majority of PNMs at these schools do not want to join a chapter that may brand them with a negative reputation (the "fat" house, for example). This doesn't make them bad people; most people would rather not be known as "fat." If this young lady is a member of a house on a competitive campus, clearly she has been through recruitment... she must know how being the "fat" house can hurt a chapter's return numbers. She MUST be aware that her house is a small house for a reason.

I noticed that some posts argued something along the lines of "Does being overweight make a girl a bad rusher?" No, but rush is a superficial process on both sides. If a PNM meets 80 women over the course of a whirlwind day one, will she remember the funny story the XYZ told her? Maybe. But she'll be more likely to remember if a woman looks very different from the rest of the women she meets. It doesn't make her a bad rusher. It's just the way things are. Yeah, it sucks. But we can't pretend that recruitment isn't superficial.

I wonder if the young lady in question's recruitment advisor asked her not to participate actively in recruiting rather than asking her to drop weight before recruitment? It seems odd that she would just be asked to "stay away" without any prior conversations about it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Because weird or freak isn't just as much of an "identity?"
A heavy girl no more makes her entire chapter seem heavy than my pledge sister made our chapter all "freaks." (A term I use here with extreme disgust)

Because partial armlessness isn't common enough for a group to worry about it becoming a group identity is what I actually meant.

I apologize if my joking about "freak show" was offensive in the earlier context. Another poster said something about a member being so unattractive as to turn off all the PNM who saw her, and I had a hard time imaging exactly what she meant.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the appearance related crap is ever really about any one member. One girl won't make a chapter "the fat chapter" anyway. But a chapter who is under pressure from nationals to get their numbers up is struggling with image problems generally most likely; and in an image driven recruitment, part of the way to address that might seem to be to make sisters who fit the stereotype less visible.

But again, I've already said that I wouldn't handle it by hiding members during rush.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

But she'll be more likely to remember if a woman looks very different from the rest of the women she meets. It doesn't make her a bad rusher. It's just the way things are. Yeah, it sucks. But we can't pretend that recruitment isn't superficial.

It's unfortunate that so many women view recruitment as so superficial. Also--did you ever consider the fact that a PNM might view it as a POSITIVE that this woman looks dramically different than the other women? Not all women who just go into college simply want to be in a house full of Barbies, whether it's an SEC school or not.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Because partial armlessness isn't common enough for a group to worry about it becoming a group identity is what I actually meant.

I apologize if my joking about "freak show" was offensive in the earlier context. Another poster said something about a member being so unattractive as to turn off all the PNM who saw her, and I had a hard time imaging exactly what she meant.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the appearance related crap is ever really about any one member. One girl won't make a chapter "the fat chapter" anyway. But a chapter who is under pressure from nationals to get their numbers up is struggling with image problems generally most likely; and in an image driven recruitment, part of the way to address that might seem to be to make sisters who fit the stereotype less visible.

But again, I've already said that I wouldn't handle it by hiding members during rush.

I didn't even notice your comment about freak show, I only said something because I hate even thinking about someone calling my sister names and she probably handles it with much more grace than I ever would (she's smart as well as gorgeous, in med school. Some people have all the luck) but I'm a bit of a momma bear when it comes to my sisters and my friends.

I equate telling an overweight girl to stay out of sight because of her weight with someone telling my sister to stay out of sight because of her arm. I don't know if this order/"request" came from the national officer or came about because of pressure from the officer or whatever, it's still wrong.

I was ok with saying there could be other issues here but some other posters think that even if she has a great personality, etc. she shouldn't be surprised to be asked to stay away. How many times have we heard that recruitment is 24/7/365? Sisterhood is the same thing. You aren't a sister when it's convenient, you're a sister for life.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I didn't even notice your comment about freak show, I only said something because I hate even thinking about someone calling my sister names and she probably handles it with much more grace than I ever would (she's smart as well as gorgeous, in med school. Some people have all the luck) but I'm a bit of a momma bear when it comes to my sisters and my friends.

I equate telling an overweight girl to stay out of sight because of her weight with someone telling my sister to stay out of sight because of her arm. I don't know if this order/"request" came from the national officer or came about because of pressure from the officer or whatever, it's still wrong.

I was ok with saying there could be other issues here but some other posters think that even if she has a great personality, etc. she shouldn't be surprised to be asked to stay away. How many times have we heard that recruitment is 24/7/365? Sisterhood is the same thing. You aren't a sister when it's convenient, you're a sister for life.

You are a sister for life 24/7/365 if you want to be. But the reality at some campuses is that if your chapter ends up with an image problem, you have to figure out how to still have successful recruitments or your going to be alum early because your chapter is closed.

I think telling a member to stay away during recruitment is unacceptable. I think hiding a member in the kitchen or encouraging her to be a Rho Chi/Gamma so PNM won't know what groups she's in is unacceptable.

But the appearance of your members is a factor at some recruitments, and you have to figure out how to best present yourselves to PNMs. That's just an unfortunate reality.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You aren't a sister when it's convenient, you're a sister for life.

Absolutely.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

It's unfortunate that so many women view recruitment as so superficial. Also--did you ever consider the fact that a PNM might view it as a POSITIVE that this woman looks dramically different than the other women? Not all women who just go into college simply want to be in a house full of Barbies, whether it's an SEC school or not.

KathyKD,

You might need to check the relationship between return rates and in-chapter percentage of Barbies before you throw out a claim like that. I'm afraid the reality of the situation might crush your spirits.

In my experience, chapter image problems are never a one girl issue.

ETA: I don't mean that image problems are more substantial or real than one girl at all. I mean they are usually way less specific factors of undesirability in the eyes of PNMs: tent talk, reputation, having problems with chapter size, etc.

[Thetagirl218]

I am going to echo something that has been said in a couple of posts:

Its not all about outside apperances! Sure being well-groomed is one things, but IMO to expect all the girls of a sorority chapter to look like barbie dolls is just plain ridculious! There are girls in my chapter who were made to fit into size 2's and 4's, I will never be one of those girls! I am not overweight, just big boned, and I don't think I have worn a size 5 since I was 14, before the hips came in!
I am proud that my chapter is a mix of girls of all sizes. I think it makes everyone feel comfortable in their own skin. Personality is always key, just because someone is pretty and skinny, does not been she will make a great member!

[PeppyGPhiB]

So...what about the ugl, er, "less attractive" girls? Do they have to stay away too? Who gets to make the decision of who is cute enough? And how do they tell them?

I don't know how anyone could be so cold and soul-less to break their sisters' spirit like that. If I were that consultant, I couldn't do it, and I'd tell HQ that.

[Tippiechick]

This thread needs to die. It is going nowhere.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

Yes -- we closed.

Yes -- I think ZTA is better for being off Ole Miss' campus than to be beating our heads against a brick wall trying to change a stereotype we got years before I ever arrived on campus.

We tried several DIFFERENT recruiting methods suggested to us by national consultants. In the end, all of us agreed that the stereotype was so huge that we could never overcome it.

Yes, I think we were better off keeping our sisterhood true than if we had just gotten ANYONE to join. After all, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having our special groups?

I don't think the answer is ever just getting anyone to join, and I think at some campuses, it's really hard to overcome a lot of factors beyond your control.

You just have to do the best you can, and not shoot yourself in the foot when it can be avoided, like Carnation's comment about what picture was selected for the recruitment guide that I think was misinterpreted to be about girls in the photo.

Is it hiding members to try to put flattering pictures in the recruitment guide? I'd say no since not everyone is probably going to be in the photos anyway.

[frattypalmtree]

lol this thread makes me laugh

i wouldnt want fatties either. whats hard to understand about that? lol but thats just my opinion.. dont get offended or nothin..

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by frattypalmtree

lol this thread makes me laugh

i wouldnt want fatties either. whats hard to understand about that? lol but thats just my opinion.. dont get offended or nothin..

Oh give me a break. Most fraternities seem to have their fair share of guys with guts.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

I wish we could all move to Ritual Based recruitment. If I'd gone through Recruitment at one of those competitive large schools (and assuming I wouldn't get dropped, since I am not below 100 pounds, own nothing designer, and have no social connections to speak of) I think I would assume that it IS all about being skinny and blonde...and wouldn't have wanted to pledge anyway. If it's NOT about all that then WHY is ritual based recruitment not used? If it's REALLY about being sisters, REALLY about contributing to the community, REALLY about scholarship and founders' ideals, then why is Recruitment all about brand labels, looks, and being shallow in general?

[James]

It can hurt guys in Rush too, as well as socially. Its a definite concern.

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Oh give me a break. Most fraternities seem to have their fair share of guys with guts.