Black Men and White Women Is it a Problem?

[DELTABRAT]

Icytre,

Appreciate your responses. It feels good to see both you and cash78mere dialogue in a respectful way. I think I ditto-ed some of your responses. I have a problem in that I type something in reponse to a post, then as I read, I notice that about 100 people have already said the same thing. What sorority are you in? I think mines is obvious.


Oooooooo-Ooooooop to the Devastating Ladies of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.

" Crimson and Cream
Every Little Girl's Dream"

Oops! Perhaps you are male and in a fraternity. So sorry

[This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited June 25, 2000).]

[icytre]

I am in a fraternity, Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., which is the first fraternity founded for males of African descent. (the first black fraternity)

Check out our website @ www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Residence/4799/
It is in bad need of re-construction.

I am the the second person from the right on the first row.

[chAKAlate]

Hello Deltabrat,

I was so glad to see that you too were from Compton. Compton in the house. Please e-mail me. I just left Compton. GO LAKERS and am now back in the Bay where I attend law school. Maybe we can hook up, next time I am down.

I am also glad to say that I agree with all your comments on the board. I am glad that there are others who share my sentiments. It is nice to sit back and let someone else pick up the argument.

Good luck with grad school.

And just one parting comment. All of you outraged white folks who hate being generalized. My point to you is whether you or your family participated in racial oppression. You reap the benefits of it everyday, by WHITE PRIVILEGE. To me that is the generality that matters the most.

haiti. If Black women used your rationale. All we would do is date outside of our race. The higher up in education level you get the fewer black men you see. Yet you don't see me jumping the band wagon of interacial dating. It is going to take more than a couple of rejections for me to jump the boat.

Phirst Pham love to ice.

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Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

[DELTABRAT]

I See YOU ICYTRE!!!
I am not mad at the brothahs at all!!
What university is that? Perhaps I should actually look at the site and not just gawk at the picture and I'd find out.

chAKAlate:

Girl yes Compton IS in the hezee!!!
What school are you attending up north?

Actually I am coming your way the weekend of Jusy 22nd. My best friend from high school (she's your Soror) and I are going up to Oakland (for her birthday) to vist our other best friend from high school (she's also an AKA). One is from Compton and the other Lynwood (heeey!!!) Is your e-mail address in your profile? I will write you to let you know what's up. Yeah, where are some parties? I understand grad school doesn't allow a lot of free time but SOMETHING PLEASE!!!

PEACE

[This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited June 27, 2000).]

You are so right chakalate, I almost forgot. We are sooooo privileged to be white. Everything is given to white people for free, heck I don't even have to work and I can be more successful than the black folk... yeah, whatever...

Have you ever looked inside a scholarship book? I did, I looked through many when I entered college and found that there really wasn't much available for white males, regardless of financial need or merit. The few scholarships that are available to white people are for women and I think those may have been about 10% of the scholarships in the books I read. Every day there is a new scholarship program announced on the news for low-income blacks or latinos, but never for low-income whites. Why? Because low-incomes whites do not need help? Oh, that's right, I forgot again, the low-income whites go to college for free, even if they are terrible students, just because of white privilege.

To get government jobs test score requirements for minorities are lowered. That means I MUST work harder and MUST score higher than a black person to be afforded an equal chance of getting the job. And then comes the affirmative action / quota requirements... even if my scores are high enough to surpass the lower requirement for minorities which is considered to be equal to a higher score by me, there is still a great possibility that a lower scoring minority will get the job instead of me because the government also has to fill their quotas. It is very unequal and makes no sense to give special privileges to people because of their color or minority status. I feel the most qualified should always get the job, whether they are black, white or any other color.

I work in private industry where I figured I would not have to deal with these types of special privileges being given to people because of their race. I was sure that my success in this company would be judged solely on merit, with new jobs & promotions going to the most deserving. Wrong. Up until last year this company made a point to hire the most qualified people who would help to guarantee long term success... last year a government agency came in and told management that if more minority workers were not hired that the company would face very stiff penalties. We are a mid-size company and already had many (highly skilled) minority workers, black, latino, asian, women, etc. But it wasn't enough. Now we are facing a real problem. Currently we have no real ability to hire candidates based on who is most qualified. Not enough qualified minority job candidates apply, and we are now hiring people who have no clue how to do the jobs, just so we do not face the legal penalties. With quality control, we determined that the recent unqualified hires performed way below production standards & much below the average (with the same training). This is not to say that we did not hire qualified minorities, this past year we have hired several very productive minority workers who we are very happy with. The problem is that we still have to hire unqualified minority workers to meet quota (the gov't may say there is no quota system, but there is) over more qualified whites all the time (I'm not saying that all whites that apply are more qualified). And now we have a new problem, we cannot justify firing white workers who are below production standards (who would have been fired a year ago) because of the fact that there are minority workers with a much lower production rate who we cannot get rid of due to the quota system. Company morale is getting low. Many of the workers who have been here for several years (including the minorities) are now complaining that the new minority hires are taking advantage of the fact that they cannot be fired because of the situation with the government quota. From just over a year ago: average production per worker is much lower, profits are lower, competition is slowly taking over our market share, our budget for raises & additional worker benefits is lowering as a result, etc.

So, chakalate, don't deceive others by saying white people have so much priviledge. Take it from someone who is there. The competitive scales are definitely NOT in the favor of whites.

[AXO Alum]

Wow - it looks like we have an arch nemisis for prettygyrl...should we call him the "Anti-Prettygyrl"?

Maybe the folks of Gotham City should step back and let Batman & Catwoman duke this one out! This is bound to get ugly !

[ManndingoNUPE]

White privilege,

I was not even going to respond to you, because you are such an easy target. The year of the "Angry White Male" was in 1994, you are a little late. You really make me laugh though. The fact that a few African Americans have been able to gain access to areas that was once off-limits to them is in no way a detriment to you. If you are as good as you portray yourself to be, then you will have no problem trust me.

The fact that you cannot have 99% of the good jobs does eat at you, and I can understand that you may not want to share 5 or 10% of the jobs out there with women or non-whites. I can understand the anger and utter frustration of having to deal with people whom you feel are lesser than you. It will be ok, If you ever get to Washington, DC look me up, we can go hangout. I am sure the brothers would love to talk to you.

As for your not being able to find qualified workers, please. African Americans have to be twice as good at what we do, just in order to make it in today's society. I had a job a few years ago, and I knew that I was the badest M... F... in the building. I use to tell my boss the same thing, and he couldn't deny it, because my numbers proved it. What I am basically trying to get to you (well not really because you have a closed mind), but what I am saying to you is that you are wrong in thinking or saying standards have to be lowered to fit us. Hell, I out perform most of my white counterparts. But then again I am a NUPE, and that is what is expected of me.

Peace and Luv, to all except White Privilege,

What is this white privelage guy talking about?

ManndingoNupe, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. At our company we do not want to hire anyone with a preference towards race. We DO want to hire the most qualified individuals, regardless of race. The only employment factor which is important to our company is making sure we hire the people who will perform their jobs most efficiently. This means hiring the most qualified and most experienced job candidates. I never wrote that all of the best candidates were white, clearly they are not.

The government FORCES us (through legal threats) to hire people based on racial preferences, aka quotas. We already do hire minorities & non-whites and have been doing this for years. The problem we have is that when we are forced to increase our percentage of latino workers from 3 to 5% within several months or face legal penalties, we are effectively forced to hire ANY latino who walks through the door. Whether they have the skills or not. That's what we are required to do to make the government happy. It's either that, or we pay heavy fines & face legal ramifications.

With time limits placed on us by the government and NOT ENOUGH qualified skilled minorities applying at our company within those time limits, we are forced to hire unqualified minorities over qualified non-minorities just for the simple fact of increasing the percentage of minorities in our workplace. This is a very poor employment practice because it leads to a lower level of quality within the workplace environment.

We WANT qualified workers. Whether they be black, latino, asian, white, etc. We NEED skilled & qualified workers to keep our company competitive. But, because of government intervention we are (currently) forced to hire anyone who is a minority just to increase the percentages of the racial mix within the company.

Take this for example: let's say next week we have 20 applicants for 5 positions, 14 white, 1 latino, 1 asian & 4 black. Out of those applicants the most qualified turn out to be: 3 whites, 1 asian & 2 blacks. Normally we would hire the 3 whites, 1 asian & 2 blacks because they are most qualified, even though we only need to fill 5 positions we would hire the 6th because there would be additional positions opening up soon any how (and finding qualified workers is tough). So we would WANT to hire the 3 whites, 1 asian & 2 blacks who are most qualified for the jobs. BUT, because of government intervention, we are forced to hire the 1 latino, 1 asian and 3 blacks - leaving us with 3 qualified workers & 2 unqualified workers. We are FORCED to pass over the few qualified white workers and hire the 2 unqualified workers just so the government feels we have the right percentages of racial mix. All we want is to be able to hire the most qualified, but often we are forced to hire unqualified because of their skin color. How can this be right/fair/equal treatment? What about those three white people who may be experts in their field but were passed over when the 2 unqualified workers were hired just to increase numbers? How fair is it to them? How well do these 3 qualified white people need to perform in order to get hired? Well, they could be the best workers and most privileged white people in the world and it really wouldn't matter right now because we are forced by the gov't to hire based on racial preference.

ManndingoNupe, How can this be close minded? Why should ANY unqualified worker be hired over a qualified worker? What's closed minded is thinking that forcing companies to hire unqualified workers over qualified workers is okay, because of race. It is not okay. I see every day how these types of policies are hurting companies in the corporate world.

How would you feel if a white underacheiving high-school student who just barely passed was GIVEN a college degree from your university just because that particular university does not have the right percentage of white graduates? While at the same time you had to work your a** off for the same degree? That's exactly what is happening with our company right now.

Looking back at the discussion, maybe I shouldn't have used "white privilege" as my username. The only reason I did was because of chakalate's use of the term WHITE PRIVILEGE in her message. I was actually using the term as the subject of my message. I hope using this in my usernmae did not cause anyone to misunderstand the meaning of my message.

[Corbin Dallas]

In White Privelages defense. He said for GOVERNMENT jobs, the scores had to be lowered, and that HIS COMPANY couldn't get any qualified "minorities" to apply, so they had to take the ones with lower qualities. I also don't think he said he didn't want to share the jobs with non-whites or females. That's just what I got out of his post.

Personally, I don't think a persons ethnicity should even be on a job application, but unfortunately, you can't have a blind job interview, as interacting with the person is part of the interview process. Also, a person's name can "give away" their ethnicity. Just look at some of the non-whites in my fraternity:

Noah ******-Jewish
Koji *******-Japanese
**** Balasundaram-likely not white!(Indian)
**** White-you guessed it, white

white priviledge,

i agree with you 100%.

Things have to be a 2 way street--no special priviledges for ANYONE, no questions about it!

[icytre]

Please do me a favor?

Save the reverse racism topic for another millenium when it REALLY & TRUELY happens!

[chAKAlate]

White privilege you are absolutely right. The days of white privilege are completely over.

Forget the fact that whites run this country. They comprise the majority of both houses, cabinet, and every president has been white.

I know minorities are taking over, robbing Whites of there fair share.

WHat college did you go to? Tell me at your school, were you the minority? Did Blacks take up all of the college slots for qualified whites. Or like in most schools except for HBCU's as in mine, were they a mere 2% of the population.

Hey if Blacks are getting all the jobs, why are there so many unemployed Blacks in COmpton, where I live. I know we are lazy.

Yeah but Blacks are taking over, we are overwhelming you white folks on the tide of affirmative action, where underqualified Blacks steal jobs from the always qualified whites.

Let me not mention the centuries of affirmative action, illegal affirmative action that was in place, when African-Americans like myself were not allowed to vote and were not allowed to rise above the job of day laborer. Oh I am not talking about hundreds of years ago. I am talking about a mere fifty years ago, but I know those are ancient times----Tell that to my grandparents.

No white privilege. Tell me when you get on the elevator--Do you see people grab their purse. Are you worried when your son, nephew, uncle etc get old enough to drive because you are afraid some over anxious racist cop will make them the next Rodney King or Diallo.

But no white privilege is over.

Do you go to a top ten law school and when you pass people in the hall, do they have a shocked look on your face because they think you are staff because of course no one like you is smart enough to get into a top ranked law school. But oh no I got in because of affirmative action. Ooops try a new argument because affirmative action has been banned by Prop 209 in california.
Needless to say that white women were the overwhelming benefactors of affirmative action. How come no one makes the argument that underqualified white women are getting jobs? Oh but no one would dare do that.

Because I get it underqualified is a trait linked to skin tone, only Blacks are afflicted. Give me a break.

A white man whining those things are too ridiculous. Try being a Black women from Compton. Hey how come affirmative action didn't save my school district from getting taken over the state because test scores were so low. How come affirmative action didn't make more than 10-15 people in my graduating class actually graduate from college? But hey I am on easy street, I am on the yellow brick road of affirmative action.

Affirmative action made me a cum laude graduate and perform in the top twenty percentile on the LSAT and affirmative action made me get Honors last semester in a class.

Hey please tell me what else affirmative action does, does it make being a single parent easier. Does it pay my bills? Come on now I want this magic affirmative action that makes the lives of Blacks so much easier than you poor down trodden white folks.

Hey I know where affirmative action is working. Hey try the prison system and death row. We are fifty percent of the prison population and we are only 12 percent of the population. Why aren't you all upset about that injustice. I know we are qualified for that.

Hey maybe affirmative action even wrote this response for me because you know Blacks aren't educated enough to respond like this.

And thanks white privilege responses like this makes me know I am not crazy and that racism and ignorance is still alive and the sad thing is you are one of the "good white people." I know some of your best friends are Black. You have no problem with Black people. The year 2000---man this is scary. My son better watch out.

Mandingonupe great response to his post.


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Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

[Wynna]

City of Compton in the HOUSE!!!

I am just so proud to see residents of Compton on this board representing so eloquently and articulately. I, too, live in Compton!

Anyway, this is my first time opening this thread and I could've sworn that I just read it (Curious). This topic is one that will never, ever be resolved. Let's face it.

Chakalate, I am so loving your last response. You took the words right out my mouth. They will never know what it's like to walk on a public golf course in 2000 and be treated so badly (with name calling, clutching and moving personal items, and threats to leave the course if I am allowed to play)that all you can do is play and cry silently (I wasn't going to leave--yeah right!!). They will never know what it's like to have family member after family member set up and beat by the police and hauled off to jail and not know when the next time you'll see them again.

I don't think anyone is trying to discount the difficulties and hardships that White people face. What makes it really irritating is when you try to minimize our hardships and difficulties. The reason why you try to give examples of the problems you encounter as a means to downplay our struggle is because you really don't know the half and you NEVER will.

[This message has been edited by Wynna (edited June 27, 2000).]