Is a "Pimps and Ho's Party" disrepectful???

[jubilance1922]

I guess it comes down to how you want to represent your organization. I learned very early that I was no longer just me; I was representing something that is over 80 years old. I would not engage in such events, just because someone would see my organization attached to the event and then think negatively. I want Sigma's legacy to be about upstanding young women making a difference in the community, and I try to represent that everyday. Not saying that you can't have fun, because you can. But its all about representation. For example, my sorority did a classy, dress up in your finest party that was great success. What's wrong with having fun and looking good in the process?

[Drunkie679]

Just because you dress like a hooker or pimp doesn't mean you are one. You are suggesting that people that do this have no respect for themselves. I think that is a pretty bold remark. You are taking the issue of someone dressing like a hoe into the person being a hoe. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. But, I feel that it is just like halloween dressing up into something that you aren't. Take it how you want to take.

[dukedg]

Maybe its just me, but I feel like people can turn any theme party into one where they dress inappropriately. For example, the other day I was at a pirate themed party where girls were wearing the most outrageous outfits. They might as well have been at a pimps and hos party. When I asked what they were they said wenches. (I'm in my mid-20's by the way, as were the guests.) Anyway, point is, some people will find a way to make any theme inappropriate. Do people hold their chapter members responsible for this "interpretation" of the theme?

[Wolfman]

I posted earlier about the wider issues that this has to do with, not with the freedom of speech issue.

As an African American male I do think there is somewhat of a racial divide here. Not simple because of the putative cultural refernce impicit in a "pimps and hos" party but because of power differentials growing out of white supremecist ideology which is formly in place in our society. Please listen to what I say and try to understand!

From the time African Americans grow up and esp. when come of agye to enter the public sphere and professional life, they clearly understand that they have to be careful about their comportment, language and actions. If one dreeses in matter that bespeaks of "too ethnic" ot wears hair styles like braids that may not be a part of the norm of the corporation, there may be consequenses. Similarly, if one does not use standard English in the "white world", implicit judgments are made about your intelligence. We tend to "switch" to adopt the cultural norms of the wider society in public life to further our careers.

For many whites, they don't face the same pressures. They are raised to see the world as their oyster, with the often impicit subtext that they can be oblivious to other cultural norms or groups. Their are typically less consequences for misbehaving, socially speaking. It is typical of my experice that when I'm shopping, go about my business and happen to be walking behind a white female, it is commonplace for her to stop and pretend that she is windowshopping,etc. It's an inherent fear of the black man as the mythical Other, the feared,violent stranger. And the scapegoating that Susan Smith, Charles Smith in Boston and the recent runaway bride in GA did could only happen in context in which minorites are stereotyped and they actually play on peoples emotions. The associations with blackface, pimps and hos,etc. are done in this context. They do have meaning! And this should factor in the decision-making process of Greeks.

[Wine&SilverBlue]

I personally would never have even thought to consider "Pimps & Hoes" a racial issue, but if some people do find it offensive, then it's offensive.

A fraternity at my school throws a "Pimps & Hoes" party at the beginning of each year, and it's an open party. No t-shirts, no link to any sorority chapter, and anyone can go. Actually, last year the name was changed to "Chimps & Crows" to be less offensive, although it's understood that the general idea is to dress like "Pimps & Hoes."

I would never support my sorority throwing such an event or having our name associated with it in any way, but I wouldn't be against going. Freshman year I stayed in to work on an art project but took pictures of my friends as they went out. Soph year I don't think I went either for some reason or another, and last year I made an appearance in jeans and heels and then moved on to a different party after a short while.

These are generally some of the most highly attended parties thrown, but I'm glad it's not my org doing it. I think it's up to that chapter to decide whether or not they want to do it, and I guess the name change is a step in the right direction?

[dznat187]

I don't think it is racist but i do think it just perpectuates a stereotype of greeks-slutty sorosity girls and sex-crazed drunk fraternity men. ive been to one of these types of parties and its just an excuse for girls to dress slutty, which honestly, alot of these people do already. Many 'party-girls' dress liek this regularly when they go out to parties anyway.

Why not try something fun that is not going to reflect negatively on the entire greek community. How bout an 80s party? Or disco? Those are so much fun, the costumes usually end up great, and you can go all out on the theme with music, posters, food, and games to go with the era. Sock hops can be cool. I've even heard of a high society party that turned out really well; everyone dressed up super posh and they all looked great and had a good time.

Other theme ideas: beach/tiki/luau/Caribean/jungle party (think girls and guys in bikinis-same effect as pimps and hoes kinda and use appropriate music-ie beach boys or jamacian, etc.), hoedown, night at the oscars/grammys, fiesta (chips and salsa and magaritas (mocktails work too), shipwrecked (pirates, hawaiian garb, etc.), you can do a theme around any tv show/movie pretty much (ie. gilligans island-everyone can dress as one of the characters and you can select the best of each character to win prizes), PJ party, masquerade ball (everyone must have a fun mask), villians and superheroes, middle school dance (think girls on one side, guys on the other, cheesy slow dance music and spin the bottle), sports fans (aka people wearing their favorite teams jersey and painted faces), nerds (come as the nerdiest frat guy or sorority girl a la Lambda Lambda Lambda), cross dressing/gender swap (guys in girls clothes is always funny), PUNK...there is no end to the more innocent party themes

Or instead of having a lets get trashed party, why not do something fun that is alcohol-free. Examples of this are bowling, chuck-e-cheese, board game night(we did one of these with Alpha Sigma Phi and it really was a blast-we played guess who and other games!!), roller skating (mix this with a 70s theme, like in Van Wilder), have a campfire with stupid camp songs and s'mores, amusement park trips, murder mystery game thing...find out what people like and try it out.

[Stef the Pef]

I wonder if the original poster in this thread ever went with the theme or not?

Anyway, the only "Pimps and Hoes" party here was a GDI "everybody's invited" sort of "Golf Pros and Tennis Hoes" deal. I didn't go, but I had friends who did and they didn't end up looking trashy at all--just cute in sporty tennis/golf/preppy gear. I guess that's an alternative to keep with the name, but first off, I don't think my school (Baylor, a fairly strict Baptist university) would ever officially sponsor something with "hoes" or "pimps" in the name, but then again, that's just here. The theatre student society tried having a "Ghetto" crush earlier this year, but it was denied by the school for being potentially offensive.

I can sort of see how it would be offensive to do something with a ghetto/pimp theme, but really, lighten up, it's a theme. People suggested Texan themes all the time for high school events in WA, and although they were usually cheesy, cartoony, "Sandy Cheeks"-esque representations of my home state, hey, it was all in good fun and I wasn't about to complain. I think the same standard applies to any subculture-themed party: do it in a good, respectful manner and everybody'll have fun. I really liked the idea of the "Gangsta's Ball" mentioned earlier--nobody's a ho, and you still get to have fun with the costumes and a lot of great music to fit the theme. It's essentially a good party theme, but even if men come as "hoes," it's just not a very respectful term, even if it is catchy.

[kwazi19]

just ask yourself - does throwing a "pimps and ho's" party align with the values all of our organizations were founded upon?? the answer then is quite simple - NO!!

there are plenty of creative "themes" you can do that aren't disrespectful to people and the values of our organizations..

[CutiePie2000]

This is the thread that refuses to die. It was started in 2002, people!

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
This is the thread that refuses to die. It was started in 2002, people!

This is the thread that doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friend...

[Indie_Superstar]

Originally posted by KLPDaisy
This is the thread that doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friend...

......Some people started debating it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue debating it forever just because........

[respect_women]

I don't think that a pimps and hos party is racist, as a few have mentioned, but I think it is absolutely inappropriate and insensitive. You have to consider the subculture you are glorifying and celebrating when you host such a party.

Do you have any understanding of the dynamic that exists between pimps and hos? It is nothing short of modern day slavery. That we continue to allow it to exist in our society that so prizes freedom is a travesty. Pimps recruit vulnerable women, often runaways, immigrants, the very poor, etc. A common ploy is to have his "main" ho start up a friendship with the vulnerable woman. Soon she'll be introduced to the pimp. Maybe they'll have sex, but initially there is no mention of prostitution. He'll give her gifts and gain her trust. Not long afterwards, he'll tell her she owes him money for the gifts. "Debt bondage" is a very common means of controlling and sexually exploiting women. He'll then tell her how she can earn the money by prostituting herself. If she tries to refuse, he'll threaten to tell her family about their relationship. He'll threaten to kill or harm family members. Some pimps rely primarily on violence, but these are not the most common. They are called gorilla pimps. Most instead rely on threats, manipulation, and psychological forms of coercion. The woman may think she can pay off the debt soon, but this never happens, due to usurious interest rates and other deceitful practices. By now, she has been inducted into the world of prostitution. She is now considered to be in the pimp's "stable" (this is the word they use for the women they control). She has to bring in a certain amount of money each night. If she doesn't, she's often beaten or otherwise punished. Pimps commonly put women in the trunks of their cars, sometimes for days at a time, or lock them in closets (they prefer not to bruise them as this can hurt profits). Rape is extremely common, and women cannot refuse tricks. The women live in such a state of terror that they cannot escape. It is nothing but slavery. There are complex sets of rules that women must follow. If a ho looks at another pimp, she must be punished; it often means a beating or a day in the trunk of the pimp's car. Thus, the women learn never to look up and always stare at the ground.

Meanwhile, the pimps make 200k/yr per girl. A huge number of the women involved are under 18, often as young as 12-14. The pimps wear gold jewelry, drive expensive cars, and wear fur coats. All of this money is earned by the selling of women's lives. The women rarely make more than $10/day.

I have to ask you if this is a lifestyle that you think should be glorified and celebrated. Women especially, is this what sororities were created for?

Another important note is that some people have suggested the name "Players Ball". This is probably the worst name you could choose, as it already has a well accepted meaning. A very famous pimp known as "Bishop Don Magic Juan" started the tradition of the players ball to commemorate his birthday. Each year, large numbers of pimps get together at players balls around the country (Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, and other locations) and pass out awards to each other. They do this in plain sight of society, flaunting their crimes for all to see with impunity. Pimp of the Year is given to the pimp who controls the most women the most brutally and makes the most money. Meanwhile these poor women are dragged to the players ball where they appear virtually naked and as nothing but sex objects for men to leer at.

Add to this that many pimps are involved in human trafficking rings in which women are transported from other countries (or sometimes within the United States) and forced to prostitute themselves. Currently, between 15,000 and 20,000 women are trafficked to the United States per year for forced sexual servitude, and approximately 2 million are trafficked per year in the world. Major source countries are Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, and South America. To learn more about this problem, check out the website for the Polaris Project (www.polarisproject.org) or the International Justice Mission (www.ijm.org). Here is a link with some actual testimonies from survivors of human trafficking: http://www.humantrafficking.com/huma..._mainframe.htm

Here are the stories of two American girls who were victimized in the US. Note, while these do not contain any adult images, they are from one of the major anti-trafficking sites and contain some disturbing stories. You have been warned. These are true stories and will help you to see the reality of what pimps and hos are all about. If you can stomach it, they are really unbelievable stories and will change how you look at prostitution in this country.

Jill: http://www.ex-oriente-lux.org/acc_usa_01.html
Jen: http://www.ex-oriente-lux.org/acc_usa_02.html

Another really interesting website if you can read Spanish relates the story of a 23 year old woman named Marita Veron who was abducted by sex traffickers near her home in Argentina. The website is run by her mother, who has spent the last several years searching for her daughter. Marita still has not been found, although they have reports from other escaped women who knew her, and she was sold to a brothel in Spain for a couple thousand dollars. To her pimp and the johns, she is just another ho. To her 7 year old daughter Micaela, she is the mom who never came home. For the first year of school, Micaela's grandmother had to go with her every day, because she would just break down and cry uncontrollably on a regular basis. (www.casovaron.org.ar)

I urge you all to reject this subculture that objectifies and degrades women and everything that goes with it. Don't use the word pimp to ever mean anything positive, and don't support this lifestyle. It's a human rights travesty. Have some respect for women. Help speak for those who have lost their voices. Tell the world that we will not tolerate such practices anymore. They have no place in civilized society. This subculture should be ostracized and scorned, not glorified and celebrated.

[SigmaPsi_Star]

Okay, so this thread is really old...and basically all points that can be made, probably have been...but...I'm no better than anyone else, so I'll throw my thoughts out there.

As far as it being racist, I can see both sides of that one, despite the fact that "pimping and hoeing" aren't exactly new ideas, the terms do have some sort of racial connotation because a lot of pop culture, and I think especially the rap/hip-hop scene, ties the two together. So, while they aren't inherently linked, the connection is there based on popular culture. At the same time, this is in fact just a theme, an excuse to put on clothes you may not normally wear (though, I do agree, lots of girls wear basically the same skanky outfit to anything slightly like a party) and go out and have fun. And, the theme comes from pop culture, so really if people want to throw a fit about it, they should probably throw a fit at the media and the rappers and what not who throw the concept of them being pimps and "their" women being hoes at all of us.

On that note, I think that sexism in this party is probably more of an issue than racism, and it's not about how people dress to go to the party. The truth is, despite the fact that it is just a party, and that prostitution has been around for the vast majority of history, having a party based on that particular institution glorifies it is something that is not needed in todays world where "pimping and hoeing" are already pretty well glorified by popular culture. Most women don't choose to be prostitutes. It's often a result of unfortunate and aweful circumstances and can even perpetuate these same circumstances such as drug abuse, poverty, alcoholism, and a lack of education. Women who choose to become prostitutes, probably have no idea what they're getting into, or they get there by way of stripping and then realizing that they could make a little bit more money by giving it up. In any event any thing that glorifies stripping, prositution, etc. is pretty much degrading to women because it allows for the idea to get into some mens heads that women exist to please them that women want nothing but to be taken by some guy, it makes us seem like...chairs...chairs have a purpose, that is to be a thing to sit on, things like this can make men, and women too, see women as objects that are made to have sex with. And noone needs that.

The difference between that and any other party where dressing slutty is the norm is that they aren't glorifing prostitution, sure, they glorify sex, but you can choose not to dress in an absurdly slutty way for such things, and then it can be chalked up to individual girls being slutty, or feeling like dressing slutty, not women as objects for sex.

On top of that, throwing your letters behind something like that does enforce steriotypes about greek life that a lot of us are fighting very hard to break.

My biggest issue with this is actually the total lack of creativity that goes into this theme. I know one fraternity on my campus throws something to the effect of this under a different name (it's something super stupid with "bling-bling" in it or something like that) I've never gone, nor do I ever want to, all I know is that the reputation of that fraternity is already that they're the guys who just party all the time (and, I'll be totally honest, my freshmen year at least, our orientation leaders both male and female, greek and not, told us that it was a good idea to stay away from that house because bad things could happen). Another group recently had a "Dance Epidemic" party, where doctors and nurses was basically the theme, I also didn't go to this, but some of my friends and sisters did and it seems like it was pretty okay, because it was more focused on being silly and a chance to wear something a little out of the ordinary and dance. Other groups have some more creative, in my oppinion, parties...our chapter of Sigma Nu has their Maze party every year where they set up a whole maze of cardboard boxes in part of their house and as people come in they get a number written on their hand, there's an area for dancing and then when it's your groups turn, you crawl through this maze with a bunch of people, in the dark and try to find your way out (there are brothers standing by incase someone gets lost or freaks out) and then you go back to dancing, I've gone and I liked it a lot. Delt has had highlighter parties, and another group (can't remember who) had a stoplight party (which I think is actually a pretty neat idea), someone had a twister party at one point, I didn't go, so I don't know how that worked. Traditionally, my sorority holds "Heaven and Hell" with one of the fraternities on campus, and yeah, it can be an excuse to dress slutty, but we have it around halloween and it's always a good time because so much can be done with the theme. As far as mixers, we do things like "My Tie" and "Tacky Formal" or have cookouts with the guys, or go ice skating or something like that.

[DolphinChicaDDD]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

This is the thread that refuses to die. It was started in 2002, people!

Originally Posted by KLPDaisy

This is the thread that doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friend...

Originally Posted by Indie_Superstar

......Some people started debating it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue debating it forever just because........

Nothing more. Carry on.

[True_Greek]

This can be debated forever and the parties will continue.

And I don't think they are disrespectfull just as holoween partines aren't disrespectful to any of the professions the costumes caricature.