Indiana Recruitment

[CookiesNCream]

I think many girls who go through recruitment screw themselves over by ranking "lower" tier houses at the bottom of their list, or dropping out of recruitment when things don't go their way. You paid 60 dollars, at least finish up the process. If you really don't like the chapter you end up at, you're not obligated to accept a bid.

I also don't believe in dropping out of recruitment as a freshman because you were unhappy with your list and going through again as a sophomore in hopes of getting a "better" house. I know an insurmountable number of sophomores who went/have gone through recruitment twice, only to see that the houses they get back are similar if not identical to the ones they got the first time around. (Plus sophomores always get much heavier cuts). Yes, the system sucks but it's not just NPC/IU/the individual chapters... it's also in large part due to failure of PNMs to keep an open mind.

TPA did very well this past recruitment for being an unhoused chapter competing with 19 other housed chapters, so good for them. Hopefully their success this recruitment will take away the negative stigma associated with a non-housed chapter and more girls will be willing to join other non-housed chapters in the coming years.

[AXOrushadvisor]

OK so I was thinking "lower tier" = unhoused. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Can some one explain how they do release figures? Is all determined on the number of beds? What if you want more women then you have beds and what happens if you have an unusually small senior class? Is there a reason why Pan is reluctant to change other then it has always been done that way?

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

OK so I was thinking "lower tier" = unhoused. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Can some one explain how they do release figures? Is all determined on the number of beds? What if you want more women then you have beds and what happens if you have an unusually small senior class? Is there a reason why Pan is reluctant to change other then it has always been done that way?

Originally Posted by CookiesNCream

I think many girls who go through recruitment screw themselves over by ranking "lower" tier houses at the bottom of their list, or dropping out of recruitment when things don't go their way. You paid 60 dollars, at least finish up the process. If you really don't like the chapter you end up at, you're not obligated to accept a bid.

As a follow up to AXOrushadvisor's question, are the "normal" (or as normal as can be since this is IU) release figures used at all? How are invites to the next round tied into how a PNM ranks the chapters?

After the 20 round, does a PNM (pre) “accept” her invites to the next round by ranking her top 14 chapters #1 and the next 6 chapters 2 through 7? In this scenario, she could – in theory – still have a full schedule during the process regardless of *where* she ranks the so called “lower tier” chapters. Even after the so called “top tier” chapters “drop” her because of RFM (I think that is what the release figures thing is called).

Or after the 20 party round, is it possible for the PNM to receive an invite to say all 20 chapters *then* she picks the 14 chapters? In this scenario, I would suspect she would be “dropping” many or the so called “lower tier” chapters throughout the process in hopes for a spot in a so called “top tier” chapter. Then at some late date, she gets dropped since the so called "top tier" chapters were not likely to extend her a bid in the first place.

In this is the case, I can see why she would be upset because she was the one that got to drop the chapters through most of the process. Or at least this is what she feels.

Does that make sense? Not sure if I'm saying it right and I may be off base, but that sounds like part of the issue at IU. That many of the PNMs are still attending the so called "top tier" chapters parties early on, when there is little likelihood they will get invited to the preference round parties, much less receive a bid.

I guess it comes down to this. And I know this is the million dollar question, but how do so many PNMs attend 3 preference parties and not get a bid?

From what has been discussed regarding RFM (I hope that is the right letters), the so called “top tier” chapters have to limit the number of PNMs even more because of their excellent return rates. I would guess that the so called “top tier” chapters at IU have very good return rates as well. So why aren’t those “top tier” chapters cutting PNMs right off the bat?

With limited spaces (bed quota) I could see PNMs dropped *before* the preference parties. But to have so many attend three preference parties and not get a bid at all seems like something is very wrong with the IU system.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by TSteven

With limited spaces (bed quota) I could see PNMs dropped *before* the preference parties. But to have so many attend three preference parties and not get a bid at all seems like something is very wrong with the IU system.

This x 100000000000000000000000000

There is no way a large number of women should attend three pref parties, rank them all, and end up with nothing. Now maybe all the women aren't ranking all of them, but I would guess many/most of them are.

[DubaiSis]

The problem is girl goes to 20 parties, ranks the 4 traditionally weakest chapters as her bottom 4. She gets invited back to 16 parties (I can't remember how the days break down so I'll make up the numbers) and all 4 of the "bottom" houses are off her list. Then at 8 party day she gets back all 8 of the strongest. For preference she gets back 3 of the most competitive chapters on campus and is on every one of their 2nd bid list. At any other school she would be a quota addition, but here, after having a stellar rush, she ends up with zero.

Or, she gets back 16 parties after day one but only gets 3 back day 2. If she'd kept 1 or more of those lower chapters, she might have 4 or 5 chapters to visit again instead of just 3. If I were advising a girl going through, I'd tell her to pick her top 3 and the 3 she'd accept if worse came to worst, and fill in with the others. But this would require a girl to sit and really think, does she like this house better because of a perceived status that she wants to join or does she really seriously see herself as fitting in with this group. If there are some "they're out of my league" chapters, a girl would be wise to rank them lower right from the start. But this is unicorns pooping rainbows stuff. 18 year old girls are not going to be this practical.

And if I understand this correctly, before rush each chapter says how many girls they want to pledge. The computer tells them how many girls they can invite back after each round. So the chapter that can only pledge 25 girls this year (due to awesome retention, smaller house or whatever) is inviting back a wildly different number of girls than the chapter that can take 60, because they allow some live-outs or they don't have a chapter house. And because of that, you can't look at the IU numbers and tell how the various chapters did. The numbers don't tell the story.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

The computer tells them how many girls they can invite back after each round. So the chapter that can only pledge 25 girls this year (due to awesome retention, smaller house or whatever) is inviting back a wildly different number of girls than the chapter that can take 60, because they allow some live-outs or they don't have a chapter house. And because of that, you can't look at the IU numbers and tell how the various chapters did. The numbers don't tell the story.

I'm also really unclear on how the computer picks that number, and/or whether there is any enforcement of sticking to that number.

In RFM, the invite number is a function of projected quota and recruiting strength. So, you could use the same principle at IU, where the invite number is a function of open beds and recruiting strength. I don't know if they are doing that.

Of course, even if they did, it wouldn't fix the problem that # PNM's > # of bids, but you would at least see women getting dropped from the process sooner, which may actually be an improvement over going through the whole thing and THEN not getting a bid. A small improvement, sure, but if you get no pref invites, well heck, at least you have time to get out of Bloomington before bid day.

[AXOrushadvisor]

I would love to see some stats but I'm thinking they keep them closely guarded. What you need to see is how many women are being placed. The next stat I would like to look at is how many are fully participating and not being placed. Again, for me that is the single biggest issue that a girl can go to 3 preference parties and walk away with nothing. My thought is if you liked her enough to invite to preference couldn't you see her as a sister?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I would love to see some stats but I'm thinking they keep them closely guarded.

One of the national officers who posts here said they (IU they) do use RFM, but she didn't get very specific about it.

[AXOrushadvisor]

http://www.chaptertools.net/site_fil...1317750124.pdf

This sort of gives you a small look at how they are doing quota. They give you some nuggets of information.

[DubaiSis]

The only nugget I found was they have to advise Panhel of their quota the week before 20 party, which is in December.

[IUgreekmom]

Early this month I came across the Recruitment wrap-up information statistics for Indiana last year. I printed them out but cannot find again where I found them. There are lots of statistics and here are a few: 1406 girls participated in 19 party, 1181 girls participated in preference round, 1015 participated in bid matching, 908 received bids and 107 did not receive a bid. Also, quota was listed for each sorority. Zeta Tau Alpha was lowest with 29 and Alpha Delta Pi had 96. Over half had quotas less than 45.

Indiana should disclose quota for each house when rush begins. It is not fair for these girls to get their hopes up for so many of the houses. I would love to see stats for this year. It has been posted here that way more girls participated in rush this year. With regard to bid matching I personally know 4 girls who did not get bids.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by IUgreekmom

Indiana should disclose quota for each house when rush begins. It is not fair for these girls to get their hopes up for so many of the houses. I would love to see stats for this year. It has been posted here that way more girls participated in rush this year.

The stats are usually posted in February sometime. Look on the Panhellenic site in the documents section under minutes. I completely agree with you that chapter quota should be disclosed before 20 party begins. There are some women who might change their rankings a little if they realized that the chapter they liked at #12 is taking a pledge class of 29 and the chapter they are ranking at #15 is taking 48. I would move #15 up if I had twice the chance to get in.

One stat that is left off the report is how many women decline their bids if they don't get the chapter they want. I know it happens, more often than one would think.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

The stats are usually posted in February sometime. Look on the Panhellenic site in the documents section under minutes. I completely agree with you that chapter quota should be disclosed before 20 party begins. There are some women who might change their rankings a little if they realized that the chapter they liked at #12 is taking a pledge class of 29 and the chapter they are ranking at #15 is taking 48. I would move #15 up if I had twice the chance to get in.

The sad thing about this suggestion is that even if you told them that info up front, the majority of them wouldn't listen.

Chances are that when you tell someone that their #1 chapter, ABC is only taking 28 girls, they're not going to think "gee I'd better move up some other houses I liked."

They're going to ignore you and think "Oh well that doesn't matter because I'm a great fit for ABC and they're totally gonna invite me back."

Or

"That doesn't matter because I'm a legacy."

Or

"I'm okay because all my friends are in ABC and Amy ABC said I'd be perfect for that chapter."

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by IUgreekmom

908 received bids and 107 did not receive a bid.

This number is appalling. I think their RFM person is doing everyone a HUGE disservice by not forcing larger cuts after 20 party. And they must be doing something akin to 3X quota at preference which should have gone out the window with RFM for the stronger rushing chapters.

Indiana SigKap, I'm glad your friend's niece worked the system correctly. You didn't say if she ended up in a stronger or weaker chapter, but from what I know about the chapters at IU, there's not really a substantially weaker chapter.

[SoProud2BeAnAlphaXi]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

This number is appalling. I think their RFM person is doing everyone a HUGE disservice by not forcing larger cuts after 20 party. And they must be doing something akin to 3X quota at preference which should have gone out the window with RFM for the stronger rushing chapters.

With due respect to my good Sister, I need to say as a seasoned RFM specialist that I have been party to many, MANY conversations and strategy sessions with IU's (equally seasoned) RFM specialist as she has worked to make the best of this exceptionally challenging situation. She has spent probably an entire week of her life -- volunteer time of course -- not just handling the numbers but explaining in various ways to the administration, and to the chapters on campus and their inter/national counterparts (the latter of which might also be referred to as "the choir") why the current setup is far less than ideal and should be changed in order to meet the demand for the sorority experience at IU. She has been beating this drum and advocating change for years, not just this year when it became "news". Meanwhile, there are NPC groups who will tell you their chapter's health at Indiana has been significantly improved under her RFM guidance, working the numbers as best she could.

It is unfair, at best, to blame someone who has taken on the thankless task of trying to manage numbers for a community where chapters simply won't consider taking nearly half the women going through recruitment (but all with different numbers, which sometimes change after recruitment's already begun). I know the whole situation is very frustrating, but let's not attribute fault where it does not belong.