Mormons won't stop baptizing dead Jews

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by sueali
I was thinking the same thing about Hitler. First, Hitler does not deserve to go to any heaven . . . .

Not to try and get too many angels dancing on the head of a pin, but, at least according to traditional Christian theology, no one deserves to go to heaven. That's what grace is all about.

That said, the LDS church would not agree, so . . . .

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Not to try and get too many angels dancing on the head of a pin, but, at least according to traditional Christian theology, no one deserves to go to heaven. That's what grace is all about.

That said, the LDS church would not agree, so . . . .

Thanks for mentioning that!

[TerryHepner]

Coming from a large Morman family, its always good (sarcasm) to see how much hate there is towards the "other major religion". A little FYI, religion is always a bad topic because everyone is 100% convinced that only their religion is correct.

Every religion has its well intentions but also its "strange to an outsider" side. To me, its weird for any member of the local church to be paid and not just volunteer their time to the church. It's also weird to me to think that if there is a heaven, that just because you didn't pick the correct religious in your 0-100 years on each you are banished to hell. So I find it strand that other religions don't have some similar type of belief. Hell if the Mormans are wrong then the baptisms don't matter anyway. I won't mind a few extra chances .

If you get the interest to be religious, research and pick one that makes you happy. Don't hate other people for not being identical to you (they call that ignorance and they call those people bigots).

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by TerryHepner
Coming from a large Morman family, its always good (sarcasm) to see how much hate there is towards the "other major religion".

Mormonism is a major religion?

[aurora_borealis]

Originally posted by TerryHepner
Coming from a large Morman family, its always good (sarcasm) to see how much hate there is towards the "other major religion". A little FYI, religion is always a bad topic because everyone is 100% convinced that only their religion is correct.

Every religion has its well intentions but also its "strange to an outsider" side. To me, its weird for any member of the local church to be paid and not just volunteer their time to the church. It's also weird to me to think that if there is a heaven, that just because you didn't pick the correct religious in your 0-100 years on each you are banished to hell. So I find it strand that other religions don't have some similar type of belief. Hell if the Mormans are wrong then the baptisms don't matter anyway. I won't mind a few extra chances .

If you get the interest to be religious, research and pick one that makes you happy. Don't hate other people for not being identical to you (they call that ignorance and they call those people bigots).

1) It is MormOn, as BetaRose already pointed out, how could you repeatedly spell it wrong if you are one? The people I know have always preferred LDS (shortened form of Latter Day Saints)
2) Since there is a belief in Jesus, LDS members are classified as Christians, so Mormonism isn't so much a religion, but a sect or a denomination. A different religion that is major would be, for example: Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and so on. Believing in Christ makes one a Christian, and it is further broken down by Catholic, Protestant, LDS, etc, but the common tie is CHRIST.
3) My church has people that volunteer and a paid employee. We have a nonmember as a secretary for various reasons. Much of it is to cut down on conflicts of interest. Many of the Protestant groups in town have nonmembers as secretaries. However that is the only paid position other than sometimes paying teenagers to babysit at events, but that is rare. It obviously varies from church to church, but almost everything is on a donation or volunteer basis. It isn't just the LDS that do this.
4) Where I live the LDS Institute, the Protestant Center, and the Catholic ministries for students all work together. We leave all the hate and high pressure conversions to the fundamentalist, damn near cultish groups. obviously we don't think that we're 100% correct. We see our common bonds and work together. We're such nice people the Muslim students even kick it with us, and find our events and building a safe welcoming place.

[RxyChrldr]

I've just come across this thread and find it pretty interesting. I am LDS, but was not raised in the church. There are definite rules the church has set out for the baptisms (which as someone mentioned earlier are not actually converting people against their will, but rather letting them hear the beliefs and make that decision for themselves). It's pretty clear that we are *not* to baptize Jewish or Muslim people, so whoever is doing such is making up their own rules and not following that of the church. I don't personally perform baptisms for the dead, but I have a good understanding of why many faithful Mormons do because i've asked many many questions about it myself. I also can understand why people who don't know about it could be upset or weirded out about it, because I definitely was before I learned the purpose and good intention of it. If anybody participating in or reading this thread is truly curious about the practice, i'd recommend asking an LDS missionary who actually is able to explain it well. The official title is "Blessings for our Ancestors," and this is what the official church website www.mormon.org has to say about it:


"Many people have died without receiving baptism and other ordinances that Jesus Christ taught were necessary to enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5). Because Heavenly Father wants all His children to have the opportunity to return to Him, He has provided a way for those who have died without these ordinances to receive them.
In holy temples, members of the Church can perform these ordinances on behalf of their ancestors who have died.

This makes it possible for those who have not received these ordinances to accept them, if they choose, and return to live one day with our Heavenly Father."

[RACooper]

Originally posted by RxyChrldr
The official title is "Blessings for our Ancestors," and this is what the official church website www.mormon.org has to say about it:

"Many people have died without receiving baptism and other ordinances that Jesus Christ taught were necessary to enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5). Because Heavenly Father wants all His children to have the opportunity to return to Him, He has provided a way for those who have died without these ordinances to receive them.
In holy temples, members of the Church can perform these ordinances on behalf of their ancestors who have died.

This makes it possible for those who have not received these ordinances to accept them, if they choose, and return to live one day with our Heavenly Father."

Right... but then doesn't this ignore the rest of John 3? Specifically the whole part about belief being necessary to be "born from above"? ie. baptized (though the original greek means I think both from above or again...) - how can an ancestor or another dead person believe?

The theological arguement for ancestoral baptism (of your faith and others) seems pretty weak, if not disrespectful to the faith and beliefs that those ancestors (or others) chose to practice...

[TerryHepner]

Sorry for the misspelling of Mormon, I was at work when I read this thread (not working to hard apparently) and got a little defensive after reading the first two pages.

The strange thing is that although I am from a large LDS family (besides both my parents, I know of only two other relatives that don't live in Utah) I am not religious in the least (I made my own decision when I was 14). For some reason I felt I needed to say something in defense of my family religion.

In response to LDS not being a major religion, I searched Google to see what the statistics were for the US and world.

Except from <http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_dem.html>
*****************
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized in 1830, in Fayette, New York. Today it is the fourth largest religious body (Catholic Church, Southern Baptist Convention, United Methodist Church, LDS) in the United States and the sixth largest international Christian religious body in the world. The Church of Jesus Christ owns over 16,000 meetinghouses (church buildings) throughout the world.

Approximately 12% of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints live in the state of Utah. Approximately 48% live in the United States.
******************
I would say that 4th and 6th largest is a major denomination (also sorry for saying religion).

A bit off topic is the really positive statistic that the LDS represent at that website.
*lowest teen pregnancy rate and the lowest abortion rate
*Utah remained No. 1 in the nation for fewest one-parent families
*Utah as having the fewest births to unwed mothers
*LDS women are more likely to graduate from college than Catholic or Protestant women
*Utah spends much less of its budget on public welfare and has the lowest child poverty rate in the county
*Utah ranked highest in charitable giving
*The divorce rates for Latter-day Saints who marry in the temple are 5.4 percent for men and 6.5 percent for women.

I found it refreshing that Utah (high percentage of LDS) ran the board with issues that the church focuses on; Families and Morality. And in a lot of those statistics, Idaho came in 2nd (2nd highest LDS state).

I hate myself for even getting into this argument since I know enough to keep my belief's to myself when it comes to religion (try having a girlfriend that doesn't believe LDS follows Jesus Christ). Being from Oklahoma, I hear a lot of anti-LDS sentiment. As a child I remember a friend of mine being taught in his primary classes (not sure what they are called in other churches) that Mormonism was a cult and to protect yourself from being brainwashed.

I guess something about the internet made me want to say something. I have always found it dishearting that every religion is based on pretty much same moral principles but that is all thrown out the window when it comes to other religions. Especially the Christian principle of not judging others. That is left to the only one that knows what our purpose on earth is.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by aurora_borealis
2) Since there is a belief in Jesus, LDS members are classified as Christians, so Mormonism isn't so much a religion, but a sect or a denomination. A different religion that is major would be, for example: Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and so on. Believing in Christ makes one a Christian, and it is further broken down by Catholic, Protestant, LDS, etc, but the common tie is CHRIST.

Not meaning to start a flame war or anything, but most Christian denominations I am aware of -- Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox -- take the position that LDS beliefs about Jesus and the Trinity differ from those of "orthodox" or traditional Christianity (as stated in the Nicene Creed) to a great enough extent that they do not consider the LDS a "Christian" church.

Thus, for example, the Catholic Church and those Protestant churches that teach that baptism is a once-in-a-lifetime, unrepeatable event would require someone converting from Mormonism to be baptised; they would not view the LDS baptism as valid.

Not intending to form a judgment about the LDS church; just stating a fact about how other churches/denominations view the LDS.

[Rudey]

After I posted this thread, the Mormons again said they would stop doing these after-death baptisms on Jews. So really, there aren't many excuses at this point.

-Rudey