I love being an advisor... - Page 2

GammaZeta · #16 03-01-2005, 12:51 PM

Don't worry Life, I don't kill the messenger. But I do think it's a complete BS rule. I've gone to professional retreats, school orientations and job orientations that do worse ice breakers than that. What's HQ gonna do, shut down or sanction a chapter because the associates asked questions and tried to learn a little bit about the brothers?

It's no wonder I hear all sorts of jokes about LXA associates being pu$$ie$ and getting it easy. There was even a comedian with an hour special on Comedy Central a few years back that did a 2 minute joke about LXA associates/pledges.

What's HQ afraid of, being charged with hazing because pledges asked brothers questions?

Here's a crazy idea. Instead of nitpicking and acting like they have a "holier than though" attitude, how about HQ try solving some of their bigger problems, like recruitment, expansion, raising more $$$, and getting basic administration duties completed for the chapters?

Tom Earp · #17 03-01-2005, 07:18 PM

Geeze can I relate to a degree on both of the last posts here.

But, LXA has tried to be the leader of PCness, but to what availe?

Ottar, some great ideas to keep them and us out of trouble.

GZ, points well taken, but, remember, we are Governed by Not IHQ per say, but The Brotherhood who vote on items.

Many of the reasons you brought up were because of Problems that are old but yet new. Ergo, we would not Zetas having The Charter taken and the Risk Management Ins. continually rising!

This is where a lot of money goes when it could be better spent else where.

GammaZeta · #18 03-01-2005, 10:16 PM

I'm curious Tom when you say the Brotherhood votes on things?

I was active for four years but was never asked my opinion or to vote on anything by IHQ.

The thing is, I don't think IHQ really has the interests or fully understands today's chapters.

Could someone please tell me who exactly votes on or designates LXA rules.

Tom Earp · #19 03-01-2005, 11:12 PM

To answer You G Z, the delegate Members of LXA who attend General Assembly. I know, I was an Alum Delegate voted on by Brothers of Alums who were there.

There were also several members of G C who were Delegates there, lifesaver, docroc, eric berger, crmdogg and others.

The rules and regulations are and have been voted on by said delegates of LXA Zetas and Alumni delegates are the ones who so decide the Laws of LXA as an International Greek Organization.

So, you have a problem, you still have my #. You still owe me a phone call!

Charge your cell phone this time!

GammaZeta · #20 03-02-2005, 01:24 AM

I think it's about time that LXA changes how it votes on the rules.

Instead of people just voting at GA, it should be more in tune with what the average member of LXA thinks.

How about this: On a yearly or semi-annual basis, IHQ will mail out a packet for proposed changes to LXA policy (the packet will also contain suggestions for the next vote in which the chapter has input in). Each chapter receives a packet. The chapter then calls a meeting, open to both active and alumni or any LXA in the area, and votes on whether their chapter supports or does not support each proposal by a simple majority vote. Then the chapter sends back their decisions to IHQ. A majority or 2/3's of the chapters must approve each proposal to become law.

In reality, simply voting at GA excludes about 95% of our membership, both active and alumni. If you want people to stick up for LXA, work to spread its word, uphold its ideals and give it $$$, I think IHQ would give the average member a much bigger say.

Tom Earp · #21 03-02-2005, 01:44 AM

Maybe your idea is not so bad. Except for the fact that The People who vote at G A are The Representatives sent by each Zeta.

They are sent the information packet of New Admendments of what is to be discussed and voted on.

If there is a problem with anything in the Code and Constitution and Statutory Code, it to can be brought up and voted on by the duely elected Members of each Zeta.

G A is done Semi Annually and not yearly for cost sake.

If there is a major situation, it can and will be handled.

Each of the People of Grand High Zeta is voted on by The Members or Brothers.

It is a Democratic process.

IHQ is putting emails out and need to be updated more frequently for Our Benefit, but it only goes out to Those Brothers who sign up for it.

As a matter of fact, to stir up the pot, At Least Monthly with information would be better.

K?

GammaZeta · #22 03-02-2005, 02:08 AM

Not every chapter sends representatives. Many times people argue NOT to go.

When was the last time a chapter you knew actually sat down, read each and every proposal, and then voted on each one so that the representative would vote on it?

Many times chapters don't get the chance to do even that.

I think for effectiveness and awareness, my method would be best. After all, how can you go against a rule that you agreed to and voted on?

GA is not a true democratic process. At it's best it is a representative democracy. At it's worst its a bunch of kids that don't know whats going on voting with the crowd.

RETURN THE POWER TO THE ZETAS!!! (LOL, I'm on my soap box now)

That's it, I'm starting the Confederacy of Zetas!!!!!! Who's with me!?!?!?!?!

lifesaver · #23 03-02-2005, 03:29 AM

The Constitution and Statutory Code of Lambda Chi Alpha DOES allow for voting on issues by mail. It is up to each chapter to decide how it wants to vote. The method is used rarely. I have seen it used once in 12 years. I dont knwo how it is decided to use that method.

Of course, the political science major in me says that we do live in a representative democracy and not in adirect democracy. I liek the model of the representative democracy (speaking in terms of the US, not LXA) because people are stupid. I dotn want my fellow americans all deciding what becomes law and what dosent because most of them are phucking morons. Dont beleve me? Ever worked retail or food service? Think of the people you waited on daily. Yep, they're morons. Hell, I favor bringing back poll tests; not as a form of segregation, but just to keep stupid people from voting. Two quick and simple questions would have to be answered correctly; 1) How many U.S. Senators does your state have? and 2) Name any one of them.

I bet 50% of eligable registered voters woudl get one of the two, wrong.

Of course, I did see brothers who were delegates at GA who sat there and read the paper the whole time.

Also, there is very rarely groundbreaking legislation dealt with at GA. Big legislation comes up once a decade or so. its not like every time GA meets theres all these bills on the floor to dissolve LXA or quadruple dues or anything.

GammaZeta · #24 03-02-2005, 04:15 AM

Hi Life,

That's easy, every state has 2 senators. Massachusetts has Ted Kennedy and John Kerry. I'm a fellow poli sci grad as well. Go ahead, try to stump me!

However, I would have to disagree with your analysis of stupid people voting. Any form of poll testing would be either intentionally or unintentionally a form of segregation, especially in urban areas. Generally minority and lower income schools do not fare as well as the typical middle and upper class schools. Schools in lower class neighborhoods do not perform as well as their middle and upper class counterparts. Since there is an overwhelming minority population in lower income schools, you could draw the conclusion that since minority schools do not perform as well, their students do not know as much. It would then be descrimination and segregation to bring back poll tests because minorities would have trouble passing them.

Any person, stupid or smart, should have the right to vote. Yes I have worked in retail and I am quite familiar with what you are describing. I'm not relying on some of the "morons" to do my taxes or perform a medical procedure. I assure you though, just because someone doesn't seem educated, doesn't mean they are not as up to date or involved as you think.

Take for instance the Civil Rights movement. How many of the protester and marchers from the South could have named their senators? Probably not many, considering they came from poor, segregated schools. Even though they didn't have a first rate, or even second rate education, they were still able to determine that an injustice had been done to them and they took action. People have an inherent sense of when their rights are infringed upon.

Let me ask you a question. Say that there was a poll test implemented, and 50% of registered voters didn't pass it and were unable to vote. Do you think it would be fair to continue to tax them without proper representation? How about change some social policy that effects the nation as a whole? Or better yet, let's start a draft and send everyone, if you can vote or not, off to war. Doesn't seem fair does it? Anyone that meets the basic age requirements should be able to vote freely and express their choice under any circumstances.

"No taxation without representation." I'll agree with you, if you can't pass a test you can't vote. But I won't expect those being denied to vote to obey the laws or pay any taxes.

lifesaver · #25 03-02-2005, 05:36 AM

See tho, you said the policy would have the unintentional affect of keeping poor people from voting and the majority of poor people are in urban areas and are disporportinally minorities so therefore it would BECOME a segregationalist thing.

You are overlooking and completely ignoring the uninformed and uneducated in rural areas, (where I come from) which I say are chock full o stupid white people. So youd just have dumb people that couldnt vote. I dont think it would be disproportinally one way or the other. I say it woudl probably reflect the ethnic makeup of the US as a whole. My INTENT was not to keep minorities from voting, which was the original intent of poll tests. I dont want stupid people voting, regardless of color. The color thing isnt an issue to me. Stupidity is.

We tax people without representation all the time. If you live in DC, you are taxed without representation. Your US Rep HAS NO VOTE, just a voice, but no vote. (Eleanor Holmes Norton is not a rep, shes a delegate) and people in DC have no voice in the US Senate. People under the age of 18 work and pay taxes, but have no vote. It happens all the time. Its an imperfect system. Dont get me started on the Electorial College. Our forefathers never intended ever tom dick and harry to vote. It was a privelage for the educated. Originally, you had to be white, male, 21 and a land owner to vote. Fortunately, through ammendments to the constitution, we did away with the stupid restrictions based on gender, race, land ownership and expanded franchise to 18 year olds. But I agree with their principal that it wasnt a right. it was a privelage and it needs to be viewed today as such. If a voter isnt going to educate himself about the system, he has no business participating in that system.

Poll Tests to keep stupid people from voting will never be brought back. Changes, specifically to the constitution, have always been about adding freedoms and rights to citizens, not taking them away. (unless your John Ashcroft or GW Bush, but thats another thread...) I would think it would be a slippery slope, so lets keep going with the status quo and let the stupid people vote.

GammaZeta · #26 03-02-2005, 12:20 PM

I think that poll tests would unproportianately segregate minorities. I'm aware of the poorer, rural school problems. However, it would still be biased against the urban schools simply because of the population based in urban areas.

You are correct about D.C. I do think that D.C. should get a vote in Congress though. Yes we tax people under the age of 18, however it is usually minimal and they are more than likely still dependant on their parents. But we are not denying people under 18 the right to vote, simply postponing it until they come of age. However, if you deny people, who are legally entitled, the right to vote how can you expect them to adhere to rules which they had no part in forming?

I disagree with you that the founding fathers thought voting was a privelage. I thought they realized that voting was a right, however, a right for white men only.

In order to maintain a true democracy, you cannot make voting a privelage. The fact that everybody has a RIGHT to vote is the defining factor of democracy against any other governmental rule.

LXAAlum · #27 03-02-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GammaZeta
Not every chapter sends representatives. Many times people argue NOT to go.

True, but I also believe LXA fines chapters that do not send representatives. I also believe there is a provision that the zeta can be put on probation or colony status if it continues.

This is similar to people that complain about new state amendments that get passed here in Colorado, and when you ask "did you vote?" , they say "no" - so what right do they have to complain if they didn't at least attempt to have their voice heard?

When was the last time a chapter you knew actually sat down, read each and every proposal, and then voted on each one so that the representative would vote on it?

CU Boulder, Colorado State, and Northern Colorado have always done exactly that, so their delegates went with "directives" on how to vote, based on chapter feelings. Some of the chapter debates were very lively, I might add...

Many times chapters don't get the chance to do even that.

I think the chapter and delegates have no one to blame but themselves for not taking the opportunity to go over the proposed changes before GA.

I think for effectiveness and awareness, my method would be best. After all, how can you go against a rule that you agreed to and voted on?

GA is not a true democratic process. At it's best it is a representative democracy. At it's worst its a bunch of kids that don't know whats going on voting with the crowd.

Again, if they don't know what's going on, and just vote with the majority, why did the chapter pick them to be delegates in the first place? And, why didn't the chapter take the proposed legislation up for debate in front of the brotherhood?

RETURN THE POWER TO THE ZETAS!!! (LOL, I'm on my soap box now)

That's it, I'm starting the Confederacy of Zetas!!!!!! Who's with me!?!?!?!?!

GammaZeta · #28 03-02-2005, 02:58 PM

During my four years as an active, and holding high offices within the chapter, I have never seen any materials given by IHQ regarding issues being discussed at the GA. Maybe it was a clerical error, IHQ has been known to drop the ball when sending timely information.

I don't think it should be necessary to spend alot of $$$ and take improtant time out of a persons life to travel 1000's of miles to vote. Why not make it easier? Streamline the process.

My chapter was always hard up for $$$. We couldn't send a representative to every event. If the Zetas individually vote, no one is excluded. Also it would be a chance for alumni to vote as well. There are alot of dedicated alumni out there still involved, however they may not be able to make it to GA. Holding votes at the local LXA chapter would encourage alumni to still be invovled and have their voices heard. I'm an alumni, but I'm sure as heck not willing to spend the time and money it takes to get to GA. It's just not feasible for me. However, if there was voting at the local chapters, I would be more than willing to drive the 20, 30 or even 120 minutes it would take to vote.

Unfortunately I think IHQ doesn't want another method because they can then have more control over the voting. I guess you could relate this to the poll tests we were talking about earlier.

LXAAlum · #29 03-02-2005, 03:11 PM

I think your ideas have merit, but there is also a potential downside to consider...

There are those elements in almost every chapter with a f*** HQ/policy mindset (somewhat like what RACooper is dealing with) - their interest is more WIIFM than what's best for the fraternity?

I think the current system is best to avoid that potential outcome.

True, you may not have received materials "timely" - I've seen it happen before where "required" material to be read to the chapter was sent to the past High Alpha - then currently in the Army - we never got it. The chapter has to always ensure that mailing/contact information is constantly updated - we had a Gamma that didn't, and that was the problem. New Gamma - no more problem.

GammaZeta · #30 03-02-2005, 04:00 PM

Well I know the information at IHQ regarding mailing was correct, we would receive some information and not receive other information.

However, maybe people wouldn't get such a f*** HQ attitude if they were involved more. And maybe that attitude would disappear if HQ listened more than they do. I think one of the biggest problems with HQ is that they don't listen. They have a mold that they try to make every chapter fit into, whether they like it or not. Just my $.02.