A newspaper editor's "Simple fix to stop hazing"

[33girl]

Originally posted by paulaKKG
I National Panhellenic went so far as to not only correct their behaivor, but to impose a ban on NPC members from even socializing with organizations that are not themselves dry.

100% not true.

For starters, it's beyond NPC to enforce something like this - it would be like if NPC told every group to have the same minimum GPA. The only things they can make hard and fast rules on are those regarding interaction between NPC groups (like rush and expansion).

The majority of NPC sororities follow the "functions" policy, which means that cosponsored events between a sorority chapter and a fraternity chapter must be dry if held at the fraternity house. If the fraternity drinks like fish in their house the rest of the week, that's their business.

Some NPC groups (KKG is one of them) do have the "facilities" policy, which means their chapters can only socialize with fraternity chapters that are dry on that campus. (I add "on that campus" because some chapters are nationally wet but campus-ly dry.)

I hardly think that NPC groups are on "superior moral ground" with these policies - putting all the onus and blame for the Greek system's problems on fraternities when there are just as many drunken sorority members out there is the height of hypocrisy, IMO.

[Tom Earp]

Here again lays the problem. Any Greek Letter so named Organization who has problems, lays this right at Our door step, Local or Inter/National.

But once again, there are Many Big Named Greek National Organizations who refuse to listen and then do something regardless of wht HQ doctrine is. We all know as We see it everyday on GC!

Many of us on G C are Alums and are trying to do our best, but it becomes a quagmire. True?

[PsychTau2]

I agree with whomever said that in this case, the students should be consequented as individual students. Write policies (and enforce them) that state if a student is participating in or promoting an underground/unrecognized organization, they are subject to discipline all the way up to expulsion. They aren't allowed any honorary memberships, Dean's list honors, whatever. If this had been a group of people who lived on the 5th floor of a residence hall and required some sort of hazing activity to be "popular" on the floor, they would be dealt with as individual students.

Now I have a question...all throughout this school year, many deaths have occured in a "group" setting (at a party or function with others around). Why can't these students cut someone off or tell them they've had enough? What is keeping them from feeling empowered enough to draw a line in the sand to keep someone alive?

PsychTau

[Tom Earp]

To Be Blunt!

Stupidity, or More's.

Learn from others or dont. Learn by yourself Heed Others or be gone.

The Main Point is Saddeness for what ever happens!

We are Greeks With Greek, thoughts. !!

[lambdagirl]

to ban something that promotes brotherhood is seriously wrong. unless you are greek you have no understanding of our rules and traditions. i think before you talk about banning greek organizations you should spend some time in the greek system. yes people have died, a lot of them through their own stupidity. if they don't want to do something all a pledge has to do is say no. i was pledge mistress for my organization last semester and no one died. so should my organization be punished because someone in another organization did. i'm not saying hazing doesn't happen because it does. however there are other ways of dealing with it than by banning greek organizations.

lambda omicron psi

[adpiucf]

The situation at Chico has nothing to do with a national or a local fratnernity. It's a group of students de-recognized by the university and the fraternity as a student group. In this case, its a student death that needs to be addressed by the community and the university.

Chico Greeks should band together and continue to enforce dry and zero tolerance policies toward hazing.

When I was actively invlolved with Greek Life on the West Coast, it was widely discussed that Chico is an excellent university, but it is plagued with problems that inhibit good Greek risk management-- sequestered location, lack of advisory support, hazing culture, etc.

I don't think the answer is doing away with the Greek System entirely, but an assessment of the Greek culture, hazing and membership benefits specific to Chico students and chapters should happen. From there, a taskforce of Greek students, non Greek student leaders and university faculty should work together with the chapters to encourage a culture that supports membership without hazing conditions, and the Greeks should continue to promote this culture through special events, new member programs and community life.

[SirHornyToad]

I'd be curious to see the statistics of students that die from binge drinking and regular debauchery who arent in fraternities and who just die on thier own accord. Also i'd be interested to see the statistics of athletes who die from hazing or binge drinking. Here's an idea lets get rid of the football team too !

[agzg]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Here in once again is the Problem Tri Fold.

Anytime there is A Organizatin with Greek Letters, We as National GLOs take a lot of heat for this.

A Local at Alfred did something and they dismantled the Greek System, no if ands or buts.

As I said, any organization with Greek letters raise a Big Red Flag. But, when a well known GLO Organization pulls some stunt or someone dies, then while it has a lot of validity, it kills all of us.

It is like measure twice, cut once. Think before you leap per sey!

If you're talking about Alfred University in New York State that was an NIC Fraternity, one that does not allow pledging or hazing of any sort (and the members did it anyway). I don't know how much more I can spell it out without actually naming them (I have several friends in the chapter on my campus, in fact, I'm dating one of them)- as far as I know there's only one fraternity that mandates that members are initiated 72 hours after recieving a bid.

Regardless... I understand how local incidents affect the whole fraternity. When my mom was in college, a chapter of this fraternity started a race riot on her campus. When I was a senior in high school, the Alfred U death occured, in relation to a chapter of this fraternity. There is a chapter of this fraternity on my campus, and my parents almost didn't let me come to Gannon because of it (they did their homework as far as greek life was concerned). When I joined the greek system, they worried about me, because there was a chapter of this fraternity on my campus. When I started dating one of them, he had a lot of work to make up as far as my parents were concerned, because they had a misconception that every member of that fraternity was a racist hazer.

Not true. I think they're the nicest guys on campus.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by lambdagirl
to ban something that promotes brotherhood is seriously wrong. unless you are greek you have no understanding of our rules and traditions. i think before you talk about banning greek organizations you should spend some time in the greek system. yes people have died, a lot of them through their own stupidity...

...i'm not saying hazing doesn't happen because it does. however there are other ways of dealing with it than by banning greek organizations.

A couple of things.

First, there are a lot of folks on this board who have a pretty good understanding and have spent a pretty fair amount of time in the Greek system...like from before your were born, probably.

Nobody who contributes here regularly would advocate banning the system. But that doesn't stop some of us from being concerned that if we don't change things that it won't self-destruct.

To touch, briefly, on another post, times are changing. There are now situations where an entire marching band, and at least one sports team have been banned for a year. It wasn't the football team, but at least a couple of schools have acknowledged hazing outside the Greek community and begun to address it. I think we will see more of that.

Finally, a comment on the last quote above, because therein lies a big part of our problem. Hazing does still exist -- and it has to end. It doesn't matter if there are 500 alcohol or hazing related deaths outside the Greek system and only one inside. One is too many.

To say what I've said so many times before, it's not only dangerous -- it's against the law.

[PsychTau2]

Originally posted by alphagamzetagam
If you're talking about Alfred University in New York State that was an NIC Fraternity, one that does not allow pledging or hazing of any sort (and the members did it anyway).

I believe Alfred University had a death in a NIC AND a local fraternity, which lead to the demise of their Greek system.

PsychTau

[DeltAlum]

Some info on Alfred University:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...red+University

As I recall, most of the members who voted to ban GLO's there are fraternity and sorority members themselves.

[epi_girl]

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
... Also i'd be interested to see the statistics of athletes who die from hazing or binge drinking. Here's an idea lets get rid of the football team too !

How about all college and high school sports teams as hazing goes on there too. And what about the marching bands? My band friends have told me of the hazing that goes on!

[agzg]

Originally posted by PsychTau2
I believe Alfred University had a death in a NIC AND a local fraternity, which lead to the demise of their Greek system.

There was a death in a local in the late 70's. They did alright after that until the death in the NIC which was in 2002. Besides the two chapters that were on suspension for hazing, it was really the death in the NIC that sparked the whole "we're getting rid of greeks" thing.

Alfred U is still a great school though. They probably only have a few greeks left on campus (the rest should have graduated by now seeing as they weren't allowed to recruit from fall 2002 on).

Having no greeks on campus didn't really kill the school - they have some really great programs that keep students coming in.

[SirHornyToad]

All i know is that at my school, all 5 of our fraternities are local, and all 5 of our fraternities haze, but we have dry pledging, our oldest is about 85 years old and our youngest is 70 years old, we havent ever killed anyone and since i've been around (5 years) we havent had anyone go to the hospital as the result of a hazing or pledging incident. This all goes back to the old arguement about constructive pledging that teaches pledges what they should know and helps them learn to cope with certain situations or nonsencsical hazing that has no purpose other then to entertain the actives and alums. A pledge running and doing push ups for hours has no purpose, where as putting the pledge in a stressfull situation similar to ones first day in bootcamp where you learn to focus on what supposed to do and deal with all the chaos going on around you which is life are two completley different things.

I think its funny how the fraternity here that had the biggest pledge class only lost one, we had the second largest and offer the most rigirous program here and didnt lose any, the next largest also has a rigirous program and didnt lose any, the next largest lost one but that was before thier program even began, not to mentiont that thier program lasts 2 weeks longer then any other one here. I think that the blanket statement that all hazing is bad is ridiculas especially considering some of the things that are classified as hazing by some people. Maybe some of the larger schools could get rid of fraternities, ours couldnt. 80% of all donations to my college come from fraternity and sorority alumni, and 70% of that 80% is from fraternity alumni.

bleh sorry for ranting but i just get all upset when i see people threatening any fraternity because a few people don't know how to be constructive with the way they do things. It doesn't matter how hard it is, if it is safe, constructive, you make sure they pledge understands whats going on or what happened, and the pledge is doing it for the right reasons they'll finish and they'll get more out of it then anyone can put into it.

oh and i forgot to mention our 5 local sororities, they haze worse then the guys do in some cases