I'm surprised it took this long....

[Rudey]

http://www.brokennewz.com/displaysto..._939iraqhazing

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Fraternities need to stay
away from colonizing at military
prisons and focus more on traditional
4-year schools. It is a sad thing
that the fraternal world has come to that
we would be so desperate to expand
as to be entering POW camps.

Do not make fun of the way
I type. It is perfectly logical
to insert spaces and press
enter in this manner.

[DeltAlum]

Maybe he likes
the way you type.

[SplitzSTG]

This is war, not a Greek Ritual. [/B]

Thank you for saying that, Tom.


Also, take into accout that these are soldiers who have been away from their homes and families for probably longer than a year. This is an unpopular war with a lot of soldiers. Most of them do not want to be there, and see no reason for us to be there.

Hell, there was a unit that refused a mission. And before anyone says that they refused it because they're National Guard, I'll tell you why they refused to move. It was a transportation unit that was told to move contaminated fuel, in UN-ARMORED vehicles, through an area that was being heavily attacked by insurgents.

You wanna talk about hazing?

"Hey, take this rolling bomb through that hail of bullets and rockets coming at you. By the way, we aren't going to give you any armor at all."

What would your answer be?

The simple fact is that the prison situation happened because:
1. The soldiers don't want to be there
2. Most of the soldiers don't believe in the war
3. The soldiers don't care about the prisoners

Why don't they care? Because their prisoners are the ones who were trying to kill them the week before.

I am an ex soldier, my Mother is in the US Air Force Reserves and her unit has been activated for the past 2 years for this crap, and one of my buddies just returned from a tour in Iraq. For those of you that saw it, he was in the battle covered on CNN last year. His Humvee was destroyed and 2 of his buddies killed that day. Will he go back? "Hell no!"

[AlphaXiGirl]

I don't doubt that you, your friend, and your mother feel the way you say. You would know that, I would not.

Not that this thread is about the morale of the troops but I take great offense to your comments. That has not been my or my husband's experience at all.

My husband's combat engineer unit just got mobilized and, although they were sad to leave their families, they are happy to be doing their duty and they 100% support the mission...as do the troops that are by their side in Iraq. And, yes, my husband's unit is National Guard.

We just got an email with tons of photos of our troops with Iraqi children... not only do the children seem very happy - so do our troops.... they know why they are there. For the men and women that get to spend time with the people of Iraq, although they are tired, scared at times, and lonely for their families, they are also feeling rewarded by the experience.

Say what you want about your family and friends, but to say "...Most of [the troops] do not want to be there, and see no reason for us to be there...." just isn't accurate.




[E]Originally posted by SplitzSTG
Thank you for saying that, Tom.


....Most of them do not want to be there, and see no reason for us to be there....


...The simple fact is that the prison situation happened because:
1. The soldiers don't want to be there
2. Most of the soldiers don't believe in the war...
[/QUOTE]

[LPIDelta]

AlphaXiGirl--God bless you and your husband. I hope he stays safe.

As for the article, I am flabbergasted that anyone would even try to draw a correlation between the prison scandals and Greek organizations. I understand their point but I hardly think it was worth the ink used to write about it since its really stretching it.

I will say that my experience at the military academies is that they work very hard to educate the students on proper and better ways to train their fellow students--of course, most of the major changes have only occured within the last 10 years. That said, people in the military, just like people in fraternities, should know what is right and wrong, what is humane and what is not. Bottom line, leadership failed in this situation, but so did basic human decency. And that is something that everyone, including members of the Greek world, should learn from and apply to their experience.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Heather17
AlphaXiGirl--God bless you and your husband. I hope he stays safe.

...people in the military, just like people in fraternities, should know what is right and wrong, what is humane and what is not. Bottom line, leadership failed in this situation, but so did basic human decency...

Amen to the first comment above.

And to the second. I just moments ago wrote in another thread that there is a vast difference between "training" and brutality.

[naraht]

Originally posted by SplitzSTG
Why don't they care? Because their prisoners are the ones who were trying to kill them the week before.

None of the prisoners in the cell blocks at Abu Graib where the photgraphed hazing too place were in there due to suspicion of attempting to kill americans,

Randy

[SplitzSTG]

You're right, there are a good number of soldiers that believe we are there for a good reason and fully support the president. But to say that my comment concerning most of the soldiers is a 'gross generalization' is simply naive. If I were still enlisted, or I were to return to active duty, and were sent anywhere, I would do my job to the best of my ability. I would also publicly support this president, but that doesnt mean I believe in the mission.

And yes, the infantry and front line transportation troops that I know and talk to about this say the same thing, and tell me that their units are of pretty much the same opinion.

[moe.ron]

Hey guys, it's no longer hazing now. According to the lawyer, what happen in Abu Gharib is something that a cheerleader squad would do.

Link to the Article

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by moe.ron
Hey guys, it's no longer hazing now. According to the lawyer, what happen in Abu Gharib is something that a cheerleader squad would do.

Saw this on the news last night. I suppose this attorney has to make just about every argument he can -- regardless of how stupid they may sound to many. It's going to be pretty tough to overcome the pictures and testimony of other American soldiers.

As the old saying goes, "If you can't dazzle them with your footwork, baffle them with your bullsh*t."