The conflict of Sudan: Uprooting the black Africans

[abaici]

Originally posted by Rudey
What circles? Is it on the same level as South African Apartheid?

As for singling African Americans out for an African issue, I think it's fair. I guess maybe Americans - white or black - are so mixed that their origins outside of this country are dead. Maybe I dont' understand because of that. But what I do understand is that other issues internationally are emphasized but not this. That's what I want to know.

And yes all groups should be active in protesting this atrocity and I loathe the fact that the world let another genocide happen.

-Rudey

Well, I guess my circle. My undergraduate degree is in history (concentration:Africa) and I completed graduate level studies in African history. So, the situation is not new to me. Is it the protest on the same level as Apartheid?...no. But consider how long it took for people to become outraged about that system. How long did it take for people to really take a stand against that? Protests didn't intensify until the 1908s. Apartheid existed as a system in South Africa from the late 1940s until the first free elections. That's almost 50 years!! Why did it take so long? People knew what was going on, and no one did anything.

This is a human problem. However, I simply disagree that African Americans should be more outraged. African Americans are no more responsible for leading the cry to end this then any other group. Everyone should care about this. As Dr. King stated, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

[abaici]

Originally posted by moe.ron
I would say that most universities does a piss poor job in teaching African Study. I never liked the fact that it's "African Study." Why you might ask? I would say that AFrica is a huge continent. If you look at Asian Studies, most big universities divide them into different regions. Cornell has East Asia, South East Asia, South Asia and Middle East Concentration. Yet, they only have African Concentration. All the region are vastly different from each other. They all also have their own regional grouping. East Africa has ECOWAS. North Africa has the Maghreb Union. Southern Africa has SADC. I wish the universities would do a better job in specializing of African regions.

Well, while the countries are different from one another (heck, differences within the country are just as glaring), most African countries are bonded by common experiences unique to the continent (well, sub-saharan Africa at least). I never really had a problem with the set-up.

But, I agree...universities should do a better job of teaching African History.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by abaici
Well, I guess my circle. My undergraduate degree is in history (concentration:Africa) and I completed graduate level studies in African history. So, the situation is not new to me. Is it the protest on the same level as Apartheid?...no. But consider how long it took for people to become outraged about that system. How long did it take for people to really take a stand against that? Protests didn't intensify until the 1908s. Apartheid existed as a system in South Africa from the late 1940s until the first free elections. That's almost 50 years!! Why did it take so long? People knew what was going on, and no one did anything.

This is a human problem. However, I simply disagree that African Americans should be more outraged. African Americans are no more responsible for leading the cry to end this then any other group. Everyone should care about this. As Dr. King stated, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

I'm talking about the level of outrage among the black community in America towards South Africa. You are taking this back to the 1940s before the civil rights movement in America. That doesn't make sense.

You know what? If I came from a region, I would care more than people that didn't come from there. If my history in America was so effected by slavery, then I would care more about the current slavery there. But hey that's me.

And Senusret, I still don't see lots of protests about what happens in Nigeria.

Chinese members of the Falun Gong protest daily across the country.

On any given day, Jews protest the fact that our brothers and sisters are slaughtered and murdered by Arab terrorists.

I see protests against the war.

I see protests to legalise drugs.

I see protests for affirmative action.

I see protests for reparations for US slavery.

So why don't I see these protests to prevent ethnic cleansing of blacks in Africa? Why don't I see these protests to stop slavery in Africa?

And I am using what I see because I'm not in a particular circle. I walk by the Federal building, downtown, was a college student, etc. I am not using outraged emails on a listserv or quiet conversations among my friends, because if I did that then that would mean that everyone was as smart as my friends.

-Rudey

[Reds6]

Originally posted by Rudey
How come African-Americans are not as informed or active in regards to the Sudanese ethnic cleansing?

I don't understand this.

-Rudey

Being informed and acting on a situation are two different things.
I don't want to say the African-Americans are not informed or acted, because that's saying all African Americans. How about some African Americans aren't informed or active. One reason could be, the results of slavery. Although knowing we are of African descent, probably more identify with being American from a certain state than identifying with a particular region in African. Many AA's can't pinpoint just where in African our families are from. That history has been lost to many African Americans as a result of the slave trade. Many whites can break down their family genealogy 15 generations, most AA's can't, so that could contribute to the what you feel to be the lack of action being taken by AA's.

Also there are so many issues going in my homeland, that I do embrace, my passion is making a difference in the lives of the countless numbers of homeless and AIDs stricken children living in the country, but that also doesn't mean I'm not aware or active in other issues that affect my people as a whole.

I guess my question, would be, why has America be so slow to step in and take action to liberate as we have done with so many other countries?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Reds6
I guess my question, would be, why has America be so slow to step in and take action to liberate as we have done with so many other countries?

You're right we should. I guess the only thing I can say is that there would be tons of protests about America going into another country. Regardless we should and so should the rest of the world.

And I don't buy the whole not knowing your roots thing because evidently African Americans still could protest Apartheid in South Africa.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

The New York Times

Magboula's Brush With Genocide
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: June 23, 2004


ALONG THE SUDAN-CHAD BORDER — Meet Magboula Muhammad Khattar and her baby, Nada.

I wrote about Ms. Khattar in my last two columns, recounting how the Janjaweed Arab militia burned her village, murdered her parents and finally tracked her family down in the mountains. Ms. Khattar hid, but the Janjaweed caught her husband and his brothers, only 4, 6 and 8 years old, and killed them all.

Ms. Khattar decided that the only hope for saving her two daughters and her baby sister was to lead them by night to Chad. They had to avoid wells where the Janjaweed kept watch, but eight days later, half-dead with hunger and thirst, they staggered across the dry riverbed that marks the border with Chad.

That's where I found Ms. Khattar. She is part of a wave of 1.2 million people left homeless by the genocide in Darfur.

....

As for Ms. Khattar, she is camping beneath a tree, sharing the shade with three other women also widowed by the Janjaweed. In some ways Ms. Khattar is lucky; her children all survived. Moreover, in some Sudanese tribes, widows must endure having their vaginas sewn shut to preserve their honor, but that is not true of her Zaghawa tribe.

Ms. Khattar's children have nightmares, their screams at night mixing with the yelps of jackals, and she worries that she will lose them to hunger or disease. But her plight pales beside that of Hatum Atraman Bashir, a 35-year-old woman who is pregnant with the baby of one of the 20 Janjaweed raiders who murdered her husband and then gang-raped her.

Ms. Bashir said that when the Janjaweed attacked her village, Kornei, she fled with her seven children. But when she and a few other mothers crept out to find food, the Janjaweed captured them and tied them on the ground, spread-eagled, then gang-raped them.

"They said, `You are black women, and you are our slaves,' and they also said other bad things that I cannot repeat," she said, crying softly. "One of the women cried, and they killed her. Then they told me, `If you cry, we will kill you, too.' " Other women from Kornei confirm her story and say that another woman who was gang-raped at that time had her ears partly cut off as an added humiliation.

One moment Ms. Bashir reviles the baby inside her. The next moment, she tearfully changes her mind. "I will not kill the baby," she said. "I will love it. This baby has no problem, except for his father."

Ms. Khattar, the orphans, Ms. Bashir and countless more like them have gone through hell in the last few months, as we have all turned our backs — and the rainy season is starting to make their lives even more miserable. In my next column, I'll suggest what we can do to save them. For readers eager to act now, some options are at www.nytimes.com/kristofresponds, Posting 479.

The rest of the article is at the above link. Now you've read this, thought about it...Are you going to act or are you OK with being quiet?

-Rudey

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by Rudey
You're right we should. I guess the only thing I can say is that there would be tons of protests about America going into another country. Regardless we should and so should the rest of the world.

And I don't buy the whole not knowing your roots thing because evidently African Americans still could protest Apartheid in South Africa.

-Rudey

Don't buy it if you so wish, but I agree with Reds6. As a matter of fact, I was scrolling to the bottom of the screen to post a response saying pretty much what she said shen I saw her post.

It's pretty hard to explain, probably because the effects of history on Black Americans is not even quite thoroughly understood by many as it is, but I do have a sense of disconnect from the continent of Africa and although I do tend to pay more attention to the affairs of the region than I do to other parts of the world because of my heritage, I recognize that I don't have a whole lot in common with black africans other than our skin color. I am AMERICAN. I know a lot about what is going on and what has gone on in this country regarding black Americans. That is me. I know for a fact that there are plenty of black Americans who are very well versed in affairs of the African diaspora and the continent itself and I respect and appreciate their willingness to protest and fight for more adequate funding and attention to matters over there.

The best way I can explain my viewpoint is to say that black americans are basically a group in and of ourselves who function in America, obviously, because of our ancestors having been brought here, but not really integrated into mainstream american society for most of our history here. We also were taken from our homelands in Africa so long ago that our connection to the history, culture, etc. there has been distorted. This is why you hear about how black americans tend to be slightly less patriotic than other groups (in the sense that we often are mistrustful of the government's intern'l policies because we look at our history here and what is going on in other parts of the world where the population is heavily black and wonder how in the world "America" puts forth their ideals of freedom and equality when they've treated their own people so badly. So we have sort of deduced that we were never really considered American people) So it's sort of like, and again I am speaking more for myself because I am sure people have other views, we have been so busy fighting social battles right here for so long that we aren't as eager or able to fight the battles in other places. So while I do care deeply about what is going on in Africa, I feel that there are so many differences between my group here and the Africans there or the Sudanese, that I really can't feasibly see what to do...just like during our struggles here a few decades ago, there wasn't a huge outcry, I don't think, from African nations that really affected American policy.

I hopes thats clear, if not sorry. I can't explain it much better than that. Reds6, abaici, jump in if you want and fill in any gaps.

[Phasad1913]

The rest of the article is at the above link. Now you've read this, thought about it...Are you going to act or are you OK with being quiet?

Are YOU going to act?

[Rudey]

I understand that. I understand the fact that in general Americans are devoid of culture and roots. It's not completely a black thing. In Chicago you do see the Irish, but when you've got someone talking about how they are one part Irish, one part Fleming, one part milkman, and two parts Swedish...they are nothing and can only talk about their American roots...and even that barely. These people are plain old "White Americans".

Anyway, back to Africa. What was it that made the African American community act out about Apartheid but not slavery and ethnic cleansing? That is an explicit question that I am really interested in understanding.

-Rudey

Originally posted by Phasad1913
Don't buy it if you so wish, but I agree with Reds6. As a matter of fact, I was scrolling to the bottom of the screen to post a response saying pretty much what she said shen I saw her post.

It's pretty hard to explain, probably because the effects of history on Black Americans is not even quite thoroughly understood by many as it is, but I do have a sense of disconnect from the continent of Africa and although I do tend to pay more attention to the affairs of the region than I do to other parts of the world because of my heritage, I recognize that I don't have a whole lot in common with black africans other than our skin color. I am AMERICAN. I know a lot about what is going on and what has gone on in this country regarding black Americans. That is me. I know for a fact that there are plenty of black Americans who are very well versed in affairs of the African diaspora and the continent itself and I respect and appreciate their willingness to protest and fight for more adequate funding and attention to matters over there.

The best way I can explain my viewpoint is to say that black americans are basically a group in and of ourselves who function in America, obviously, because of our ancestors having been brought here, but not really integrated into mainstream american society for most of our history here. We also were taken from our homelands in Africa so long ago that our connection to the history, culture, etc. there has been distorted. This is why you hear about how black americans tend to be slightly less patriotic than other groups (in the sense that we often are mistrustful of the government's intern'l policies because we look at our history here and what is going on in other parts of the world where the population is heavily black and wonder how in the world "America" puts forth their ideals of freedom and equality when they've treated their own people so badly. So we have sort of deduced that we were never really considered American people) So it's sort of like, and again I am speaking more for myself because I am sure people have other views, we have been so busy fighting social battles right here for so long that we aren't as eager or able to fight the battles in other places. So while I do care deeply about what is going on in Africa, I feel that there are so many differences between my group here and the Africans there or the Sudanese, that I really can't feasibly see what to do...just like during our struggles here a few decades ago, there wasn't a huge outcry, I don't think, from African nations that really affected American policy.

I hopes thats clear, if not sorry. I can't explain it much better than that. Reds6, abaici, jump in if you want and fill in any gaps.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
Are YOU going to act?

Yes. I have and will continue to do so. The bare minimum I can do is try and get other people involved about it as well.

-Rudey

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by Rudey
I understand that. I understand the fact that in general Americans are devoid of culture and roots. It's not completely a black thing. In Chicago you do see the Irish, but when you've got someone talking about how they are one part Irish, one part Fleming, one part milkman, and two parts Swedish...they are nothing and can only talk about their American roots...and even that barely. These people are plain old "White Americans".

Anyway, back to Africa. What was it that made the African American community act out about Apartheid but not slavery and ethnic cleansing? That is an explicit question that I am really interested in understanding.

-Rudey

From my understanding of what apartheid was, it was much more closely related to the racial oppression that black americans recieved during the pre-civil rights era/civil rights era and many more black americans who lived and suffered through that could relate to the plea of the black africans who suffered through apartheid so it was a more immediate outcry. Basically, there was more of an identification to this system then there was/is to the whole issue of slavery.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
From my understanding of what apartheid was, it was much more closely related to the racial oppression that black americans recieved during the pre-civil rights era/civil rights era and many more black americans who lived and suffered through that could relate to the plea of the black africans who suffered through apartheid so it was a more immediate outcry. Basically, there was more of an identification to this system then there was/is to the whole issue of slavery.

If that is the case and the African American community can't identify with slavery and its effects then I never ever want to hear a single word about reparations.

-Rudey

[Phasad1913]

Originally posted by Rudey
If that is the case and the African American community can't identify with slavery and its effects then I never ever want to hear a single word about reparations.

-Rudey

That's an entirely different discussion and don't exxaggerate what I said. I did not say black americans CANNOT identify with slavery. I am not going to get all of into the lasting effects and all that right now.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
That's an entirely different discussion and don't exxaggerate what I said. I did not say black americans CANNOT identify with slavery. I am not going to get all of into the lasting effects and all that right now.

So what about that whole trend with people wearing things with Africa maps? Those people who are all Africa this, and Africa that and I wear these colors for the blood and yada yada...are they not walkers but talkers?

-Rudey

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by ktsnake
It has to do with post-WWII Soviet occupation. 50 years of Communist imperial rule will have an effect on your culture.

I would have to say it was before WWII, even. Some of the strictest WWI-era immigration controls were placed on Eastern Europeans for several reasons, and since most of Eastern Europe didn't go Communist until after WWII, I'm going to take a gander and say that there has been pro-Western European sentiment since before WWII.

But, what do I know?