Do you or do you not?

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by RACooper

However whether there was a wedding or not does really change the fact that innocent people died. Sure some "bad guys" were killed, but was the PR cost worth it? Don't really know (although the Iraqis are proving very savy in the PR war) Could there have been a better way of taking action? Again don't know but I suspect that there could have been.

This entire paragraph is nonsense . . . by 'nonsense' I want to remove any modern connotation behind it, and merely point out that you don't make a real point here. It's just talking for the sake of talking.

As for the 'wedding' . . . you know what, I don't even know where to start, so I'll just play our little game of 'anecdotal evidence matters in arguments' and say, "4 charred bodies hanging from a bridge . . . but you'll just spin that into something anti-American military as well, I'm sure, because you're willing to take the word of the Iraqi PR machine as long as it is passed to the BBC by al-Jazeera. Very intelligent, I think."

[justamom]

I think I'll agree with KSig RC on the source of the info.
A little questionable because there is an agenda behind many things the BBC does...even within it's own country.

Well, let's draw a comparison. How many times (which I really don't know) have innocent Americans been killed because they were near a "target".
During the World Wars and all the other "conflicts" how many innocent Italians-Germans-Frenchmen-Vietnamese-Japanese, Spaniards -(you get the idea) were killed.

Should we have bailed on our fight against Hitler? Should we have closed our eyes to Pearl Harbor? In our own Civil War, MANY innocents were killed as brother stood against brother. Was THAT a just cause? There seems to be two distinct schools of thought. Those who believe Iraq, Afghanistan...Saudi Arabia and Syria present a "real and present danger", and those who don't.
Those who DON'T... have you forgotten the shock, the horror and the pain of 9-11 as over 3000 of OUR innocents were killed?

Tom is right. THIS IS WAR. War is ugly. Innocent people DO get killed. To exploit every single perceived "innocent's" death does NOTHING to help defeat this enemy. I've said this before-I agree with O'Reilly-this IS WWlll. IMO , those who give comfort to the enemy are just as guilty-have hands just as dirty-as those supplying them with money and ammunition.


You know, once this UN "Oil for Food" scandal is unraveled, we will see who has the REAL agenda...Notice the "positions" and influence of those getting the bribe.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/I..._040420-1.html
...The inquiries into the United Nations Oil-for-Food program result from the release in January of a list of 270 individuals, companies and institutions that allegedly received lucrative oil contracts from Saddam Hussein's former regime in return for political support...Oil vouchers were allegedly given either as gifts or as payment for goods imported into Iraq in violation of the U.N. sanctions...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russia
The Companies of the Russian Communist Party: 137 million
The Companies of the Liberal Democratic Party: 79.8 million
The Russian Committee for Solidarity with Iraq: 6.5 million and 12.5 million (two separate contracts)
Head of the Russian Presidential Cabinet: 90 million
The Russian Orthodox Church: 5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
France
Charles Pasqua, former minister of interior: 12 million
Trafigura (Patrick Maugein), businessman: 25 million
Ibex: 47.2 million
Bernard Merimee, former French ambassador to the United Nations: 3 million
Michel Grimard, founder of the French-Iraqi Export Club: 17.1 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Syria
Firas Mostafa Tlass, son of Syria's defense minister: 6 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Turkey
Zeynel Abidin Erdem: more than 27 million
Lotfy Doghan: more than 11 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indonesia
Megawati Sukarnoputri: 11 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spain
Ali Ballout, Lebanese journalist: 8.8 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yugoslavia
The Socialist Party: 22 million
Kostunica's Party: 6 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Canada
Arthur Millholland, president and CEO of Oilexco: 9.5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Italy
Father Benjamin, a French Catholic priest who arranged a meeting between the pope and Tariq Aziz: 4.5 million
Roberto Frimigoni: 24.5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
United States
Samir Vincent: 7 million
Shakir Alkhalaji: 10.5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------United Kingdom
George Galloway, member of Parliament: 19 million
Mujaheddin Khalq: 36.5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
South Africa
Tokyo Saxwale: 4 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jordan
Shaker bin Zaid: 6.5 million
The Jordanian Ministry of Energy: 5 million
Fawaz Zureikat: 6 million
Toujan Al Faisal, former member of Parliament: 3 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lebanon
The son of President Lahoud: 5.5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Egypt
Khaled Abdel Nasser: 16.5 million
Emad Al Galda, businessman and Parliament member: 14 million
Palestinian Territories
The Palestinian Liberation Organization: 4 million
Abu Al Abbas: 11.5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qatar
Hamad bin Ali Al Thany: 14 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Libya
Prime Minister Shukri Ghanem: 1 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad
Foreign minister of Chad: 3 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brazil
The October 8th Movement: 4.5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Myanmar (Burma)
The minister of the Forests of Myanmar: 5 million
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ukraine
The Social Democratic Party: 8.5 million
The Communist Party: 6 million
The Socialist Party: 2 million
The FTD oil company: 2 million

[Rudey]

Originally posted by justamom

You know, once this UN "Oil for Food" scandal is unraveled, we will see who has the REAL agenda...Notice the "positions" and influence of those getting the bribe.

I said this to DeltAlum before. It won't get out. Nothing will. Why? Well there was a great op-ed on the civil war among the different American groups (ie the CIA vs Pentagon vs State Department). To ensure UN involvement (ie a political move) the State Department has given in and made sure certain things are not investigated (ie UN involvement). Brahimi, the UN envoy who is helping out in Iraq, is being given more power, Ahmed Chalabi who was spearheading an audit was knocked down 5 notches so no such audit could occur, Sunnis in the region are pushing for greater political power (with UN endorsement as well as the direct push by Brahimi an Algerian) at the expense of Shiites and Kurds again.

People need to wake up. The large population of countries in this world will not sit still at their expense if they will be implicated. The US is under immense political pressure to get UN backing and won't even push the investigation. It won't happen. The Arab thugs, the UN hoodlums, and the Russian/French/Syrian dirt will all have blood on their hands and nobody will care.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Justamom,

Iraqis bury victims of US strike

Hope the link works.


Rudey,

I'm sorry, but in Canada, there is no such thing as stoning

That story says nothing. They said it was a wedding and they said a singer died. The US said it was not a wedding. What did you just prove with this post? Why don't you show us the evidence this was just a wedding and show us how weapons, fighters, so many males, so many beds were just doing at a wedding? Why don't you show us the picture of the bride and groom killed that you were talking about? While you're digging up news show us where there were US soldiers raping and feeding pork and wine to iraqis. And then tell us again how it's better that they die than eat pork and drink wine because in your idiot head that probably makes sense.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Ah yes... the we do not commit acts as evil as Saddam... so therefore we are good...

Bullshit... wrong is wrong, evil is evil... The US was (obstenably) founded on the principle of religious freedom and basic human rights - and those rights apply to everyone.... not whom you chose as "worthy".

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Ah yes... the we do not commit acts as evil as Saddam... so therefore we are good...

Bullshit... wrong is wrong, evil is evil... The US was (obstenably) founded on the principle of religious freedom and basic human rights - and those rights apply to everyone.... not whom you chose as "worthy".

Were you an officer in your military by the way?

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Well you have to be a University graduate... so no...

But the bi-weekly lectures on military justice, international law, human rights, and international customs were enlightning (if only because it gave me a break from the range).

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Well you have to be a University graduate... so no...

But the bi-weekly lectures on military justice, international law, human rights, and international customs were enlightning (if only because it gave me a break from the range).

I know.

-Rudey
--I don't often ask leading questions when I don't know the answer.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
I know.

-Rudey
--I don't often ask leading questions when I don't know the answer.

That's interesting... so you put more thought into your questions than you do you comments or answers?

PS> for your edification I have turned down a commision three times now through the DEO program up here in Canada.... I always thought the NCOs held the real power

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
That's interesting... so you put more thought into your questions than you do you comments or answers?

PS> for your edification I have turned down a commision three times now through the DEO program up here in Canada.... I always thought the NCOs held the real power

When someone questions someone, it can be rhetorical with a point in mind. At the end of the day all you have to rely on is your experience in the military - a shabby military and a non-officer rank at that.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
When someone questions someone, it can be rhetorical with a point in mind. At the end of the day all you have to rely on is your experience in the military - a shabby military and a non-officer rank at that.

-Rudey

Alright you've done it you pathelic little pencil dicked shithead... fuck you and the horse you sodomized on the way to your Canada hating party... the magnitude of your ignorance about the world and the military is more that fucking obvious, so next time your sitting behind your desk masturbating away pertending you are important.. just shut the fuck up and stick another staple in your sack...

So I have to ask did you ever consider serving in your beloved Israeli army.. or US Army....hmm? Were you to much of a coward? I hope to God you AEPi has a convention up here soon, so I can watch some of your brothers in a "shabby" military stomp your biggoted ass into the dirt were it belongs....


To the others on this board I apologize... but the asshole has really pissed me off anti-Canada bashing; if it was observations or questions fine.... but just base insults day after day has finally gotten to me... so I apolgize to the other's out there who understand civility, arguement, and debate....

[Rudey]

Do you sometimes wish you were an officer?

RACooper was a grunt in...the CANADIAN military and he knows how to cook, fly, is a forensics specialist, climbs mountains, does psychological analyses, understands everything, never needs to read, and eats out Rudey's hole.

-Rudey
--What a joke.

Originally posted by RACooper
Alright you've done it you pathelic little pencil dicked shithead... fuck you and the horse you sodomized on the way to your Canada hating party... the magnitude of your ignorance about the world and the military is more that fucking obvious, so next time your sitting behind your desk masturbating away pertending you are important.. just shut the fuck up and stick another staple in your sack...

So I have to ask did you ever consider serving in your beloved Israeli army.. or US Army....hmm? Were you to much of a coward? I hope to God you AEPi has a convention up here soon, so I can watch some of your brothers in a "shabby" military stomp your biggoted ass into the dirt were it belongs....


To the others on this board I apologize... but the asshole has really pissed me off anti-Canada bashing; if it was observations or questions fine.... but just base insults day after day has finally gotten to me... so I apolgize to the other's out there who understand civility, arguement, and debate....

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
Do you sometimes wish you were an officer?

RACooper was a grunt in...the CANADIAN military and he knows how to cook, fly, is a forensics specialist, climbs mountains, does psychological analyses, understands everything, never needs to read, and eats out Rudey's hole.

-Rudey
--What a joke.

Okay fine...

Nope, can't say I can cook anything other than pastas, pizzas, and popcorn.

Yes I have my recreational pilots licence, so that my grandfather can still enjoy his homebuilts.

I never said I was a forensics specialist, but that I had witnesses a beheading in the former Yugoslavia, as well as the aftermath of aproximately 6 more. So I based my comments on personal experiece (as I stated).

I do have three years of psychology and social anthropology under my belt, so I felt that I could make some comments based on in class and personal observations... silly me....

Never claimed to understand everything.. advanced economic theories for one (dabbled but found it to boring to try to understand)... or university level physics, chemistry, biology (other than evolutionary), geology, any of the engineering specializations (or engineers either ), foreign languages (to my shame), or modern art. I have a lot that I don't understand... but I have a lot that I do (you know being old and all).

As for reading... thats all I really do... books, magazines, newspapers... I generally spend about $800-1000 a year on books for education outside of school.. I believe you can never know enough, nor never stop learning.

As for eating out of your hole... sorry I'm not your weekend trick....

[Rudey]

Yeah ummmkay.

-Rudey

Originally posted by RACooper
I am a grunt. I am old. I don't know anything and have no qualifications or experience yet. I was not an officer in my military. My country, Canada, does not and will never play a major role on anything in this world. I do not understand where confidence stops and arrogance begins. I need to tell Americans what to do, who to vote for, that Canadians are superior, etc.