Franklin & Marshall: Reversing the Trend

[DWAlphaGam]

Originally posted by 33girl
I doubt they will get the houses on campus that other private colleges in PA like Lehigh, Bucknell, W&J have, so that part IS kinda like "what's in it for us?" That is, other similar schools have that and they won't (DWAlphaGam or someone else, please correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't know about F&M's Greek community, but those other schools you listed (and Lafayette, where I went) all have Greek houses. At Lafayette, most of the houses are now school-owned, too, which means that the college has very stringent controls over them. If that happens at F&M, they're going to have a similar situation.

Originally posted by pinkyphimu
i think it is just the admins. way of regulating the greek system. the school is willing to recognize them...if they move to sophomore deferment. f & m is trying to move to a system that is place at bucknell, muhlenberg and other schools in the area. sophomore deferment is not working at those schools...and probably won't at f & m. my friend used to work there. i will see if she has any insight.

You're totally right about sophomore deferment not working. Lafayette, Bucknell, Muhlenberg, and Dickinson (that I know of) all have sophomore recruitment. It seems to be a trend with small private schools in PA, and it's leading to decreasing numbers everywhere, which is probably why so many administrations are pushing for it. For example, at Lafayette, chapter average is now in the low 60s, whereas before sophomore deferment, it was in the high 80s (at least). When I started school 7 years ago, 65% of students were Greek, and now it's hovering around 40%. But that's a different thread subject...

ETA: Here's a link to F&M's documents regarding re-recognition: http://www.fandm.edu/Departments/stu...eekdiscussion/

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by madmax
Now answer my question. What is the school going to do for them?

This is something thing that the F&M greeks want, and that should be enough of an answer.

The administration will be implementing rules, but not unilaterally. The rules have been negotiated between fraternity alumni and the administration.

As for housing, that is being discussed.

The system needs local guidance. They did a recent survey, and the F&M fraternities don't have such a good GPA.

[Tom Earp]

Russ,
agree with you and hope this is not just a School ploy to show Greeks. But in this day and age, we should take anythig We can takes as Greeks when it comes to expansion.

Just because there may or not be house buildings is not all that big. The thing is if each Greek Ornaization is on an even playing field. Whether if they are given dorm sections or floors, just as long as there a place that be a focla point to meet with out every SOB just coming by.

NOt being that familiar with F @ M, I plead ignorance. But as Shorter in Ga. did who had only Locals thought it would be best to go with Nationals. It seems to be working out so far there.

I hope there are those on GC who will keep us updated about F @ M!

[squashfly3]

hi all! having been busy with the end of classes and all, i just stumbled upon this thread. as a student who attends F&M College and is also a greek i thought that i would try to clear a few things up. first off, the vote was in favor of re-recongnizing the Greeks...this happened last week i believe. and second if you want more info, there is a press release on the F&M website F&M Website hope this clears things up for anyone who was confused.

[33girl]

I don't get this part (copied from the press release):

A set of standards designed to remedy the negative impact that pledging has had on academic life at the college. Both the students interested in rushing a Greek group and the group itself must maintain specific grade point averages.

If you're a national sorority or fraternity, you have to do this ANYWAY to remain in good standing. And most of the national groups have increased their standards above what the colleges ask (i.e. you need a 2.0 to rush, but XYZ requires you to have a 2.7). What do they think, that everyone should have a 4.0?

[squashfly3]

I don't get this part (copied from the press release):
A set of standards designed to remedy the negative impact that pledging has had on academic life at the college. Both the students interested in rushing a Greek group and the group itself must maintain specific grade point averages.
If you're a national sorority or fraternity, you have to do this ANYWAY to remain in good standing. And most of the national groups have increased their standards above what the colleges ask (i.e. you need a 2.0 to rush, but XYZ requires you to have a 2.7). What do they think, that everyone should have a 4.0?

33girl-you're right. national sororities and fraternities require that you are in good standing and have a certain gpa to pledge. what the college is trying to do, is to reinforce that standard from both the Greek organization and also for the students interested in rushing. i think it's like how in a GLO's constitution or bylaws it states what requirements are needed for the person to rush that organization, the constitution that is written for re-recognition is just re-stating that idea.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by 33girl
I don't get this part (copied from the press release):

A set of standards designed to remedy the negative impact that pledging has had on academic life at the college. Both the students interested in rushing a Greek group and the group itself must maintain specific grade point averages.

If you're a national sorority or fraternity, you have to do this ANYWAY to remain in good standing. And most of the national groups have increased their standards above what the colleges ask (i.e. you need a 2.0 to rush, but XYZ requires you to have a 2.7). What do they think, that everyone should have a 4.0?

You don't have to comply with a GLO's GPA requirements at a campus where the greek system is not recognized. Why? Because it is not enforcable. How are you going to get grades from the administration?

[33girl]

I don't know about anyone else's group, but our sorority, if we were in this situation, would not put up with grades not being submitted in yearly reports. I doubt any of the groups at F & M would either.

We never "got grades from the administration" as far as I know...unless you have hundreds of members or a bunch of liars in the chapter I don't know why you would need to.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Well, the F&M administration did a recent survey and concluded that the average GPA of F&M greeks is about 2.4 (according to my source.) There is nothing that F&M can do about this if the system were to remain unrecognized. I believe that this is a contributing factor to F&Ms realization that its time to do a 180, and rerecognize the greek system.

[squashfly3]

PhiPsiRuss...
where'd you get that info about the average GPA for F&M greeks? i go to F&M and i wasn't aware that they had calculated an average for the entire greek system, i had thought that they just did it for the individual groups.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by squashfly3
PhiPsiRuss...
where'd you get that info about the average GPA for F&M greeks? i go to F&M and i wasn't aware that they had calculated an average for the entire greek system, i had thought that they just did it for the individual groups.

A few of the Phi Psis that show up for our monthly happy hour in Manhattan are from our F&M chapter. One alumnus has been in direct communication with the F&M administration about re-recognition in reecent years, as well as presently. F&M polled the greeks, as they haven't had greek affiliation in their data base, and they came up with 2.4. Is it accurate? It might be, but then again, it might not.

[Tom Earp]

Isnt the main thing, that Nationals will once again be recognized by F & M?

So as would be expected, the School will try to have more control, but, if the Greeks who are also controlled by Their Nationals be held to a higher standard then Greeks should continue to grow and flourish there.

If the Greeks hold themselves to a higher standard, it will make F & M look like the great seers.

It does seem like more Shools are returning to National Greek Recognition. Alfred College I beleive is the last to ban Greeks at their campus.


Now there seems to have been a turn around within the last year or so.

While Greeks are a smaller % on campus, I am sure that Greek Alums will or did contribuate more money over all than Independent grads.

[squashfly3]

hey which phi psi brothers do you know from F&M? i'm good friends with the majority of their brotherhood, i'd be interested to see who you know

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by squashfly3
hey which phi psi brothers do you know from F&M? i'm good friends with the majority of their brotherhood, i'd be interested to see who you know

I don't know any actives, just alumni. I'll PM you their names.

[efrackel]

What's up people,

I'm not sure how old this post is...but I was glancing over a few of them and let me explain as much as I know from my Upsilon Chapter, Delta Sigma Phi at Franklin and Marshall College chapter's perspective about Greek rerecognition. I was the president of the undergraduate chapter right at the beginning of the process. I feel fairly confident saying that only 10% of the greek organizations on campus wanted re-recognition, and we certainly were not one of them. Our numbers were fine (around 60 including pledges), we were just starting to pay off and catch up on some past debts with our national, and we were currently in good standing with the Lancaster City Police and Fire Department. When the new president of the college, John Fry, came in from the University of Pennsylvania, he wanted to do the same thing he did at U-Penn and improve our rankings. One way was to improve Alumni donations, which declined after de-recognition in 1989 because older Alumni were pissed off at the College (GREEK LIFE AT F&M WAS AND IS A VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THE COLLEGE!!!). So re-recognizing the Greeks seemed like a simple way to improve donations, improve the number of students officially joining "clubs and organizations" and at the same time implementing plans to try to improve the GPA of the college.
Sorry this is so long winded...that said...Being a past Delta Sigma Phi president, I agree that rerecognition would greatly improve the reputation, dignity, and service that was once very important to all Greek Organizations, but at the same time the school wanted to and is going to make things much more difficult for all the chapters. The administration is going to rigorously and immediately implement new rules and regulations which these current chapters will not be able to handle (we are used to a particular way of running things...OUR WAY!). The idea of sophomore pledging sucks, it's stupid and serves no purpose but to lower numbers, and the college still has no plan for providing any real financial aid to the houses. Luckily all of the undergraduate chapter houses are owned by the Alumni Housing Boards of each organization, so the school can't come in and bust up parties, inspect, etc...
To make an obscenely long story very short, the President of the college, John Fry, wants to make the Greek system at Franklin and Marshall College a model "liberal arts" Greek System that will serve as an example for all other schools of what a strong system is. It's going to be intense and it's going to suck and it's going to ruin the only good aspect of F and M that made me even want to be student there and be the president of the fraternity and a leader. There is no trial period...the chapters just went from sufficient self-governance and enjoying being greeks to a system that is so bogged down with control and paperwork that they won't have time to even crack open a book or play a game of beirut.

As far as I see it...the current goodtime Greek System at Franklin and Marshall College is being replaced by a Nazi Regime and is totally F-ed!!

check out this link---> http://www.fandm.edu/greeklife/

Ed Frackelton '04 (yeah, I was just graduated),
Former President
Upsilon Chapter, Delta Sigma Phi Fraternity