What is Kappa Kappa Psi?

[Sticky]

in response to co'ed chapters.

I am a female brother of KKPsi , the Iota Kappa chapter. It is true that Boise State does not have a TBS chapter, but if we did... I personally would still be a brother of KKPsi. One of few distinguishable differences between the two organizaitons is that Tau Beta Sigma "promotes women in the band" versus Kappa Kappa Psi which "promotes members of the band" this isn't any sort of crack on TBS and the written language doesn't effect their ability to serve in ANY manner. I am just a stickler for words and it is my political take to be against many things categorized as womens right's.

TBS and KKPsi are very very closely related. In fact the Alpha chapter of each are located at the same school. THere is a very interesting story behind the formation of TBS, but to sum it up, KKPsi was not opposed to being a co'ed frat at any point to my knowledge. Originally there wasn't an alternative for women.

[psi_chotic02]

my opinion is that if the founding fathers wanted to send a clear message about women being in the frat......they would've had at least one women founder (I mean, i know there had to be at least ONE female member in the band).....THEY wouldn't call themselves fathers.........WE wouldn't be called brothers.......and THIS wouldn't be a brotherhood!!!

Now that's my 2 cents.....

Stephen I.
Kappa Kappa Psi/Epsilon Theta
Fall 2K2 #1
"Psi-chotic" Double Psi-ded

[Psientist]

Originally Posted by psi_chotic02

my opinion is that if the founding fathers wanted to send a clear message about women being in the frat......they would've had at least one women founder (I mean, i know there had to be at least ONE female member in the band).....THEY wouldn't call themselves fathers.........WE wouldn't be called brothers.......and THIS wouldn't be a brotherhood!!!

Now that's my 2 cents.....

Stephen I.
Kappa Kappa Psi/Epsilon Theta
Fall 2K2 #1
"Psi-chotic" Double Psi-ded

Somebody needs to go over some info...
The first Oklahoma A&M College Band was organized in 1905 by an A&M student. Originally, only men were allowed to play in the band. It wasn't until 1936 where women were really in the concert band. Even then, they were not allowed to march. In 1946, a marching band for girls formed, and in 1955 the two bands were combined into one.

How would there be a female founder if women weren't allowed to be in the band during the founding of Kappa Kappa Psi?

Know the circumstances behind the facts before you just go off on seemingly ignorant accusations.


So I take your 2 cents and raise you my 19

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by Psientist

Somebody needs to go over some info...
The first Oklahoma A&M College Band was organized in 1905 by an A&M student. Originally, only men were allowed to play in the band. It wasn't until 1936 where women were really in the concert band. Even then, they were not allowed to march. In 1946, a marching band for girls formed, and in 1955 the two bands were combined into one.

How would there be a female founder if women weren't allowed to be in the band during the founding of Kappa Kappa Psi?

Know the circumstances behind the facts before you just go off on seemingly ignorant accusations.


So I take your 2 cents and raise you my 19

Nice history lesson!

[blkwebman1919]

Originally Posted by Psientist

Somebody needs to go over some info...
The first Oklahoma A&M College Band was organized in 1905 by an A&M student. Originally, only men were allowed to play in the band. It wasn't until 1936 where women were really in the concert band. Even then, they were not allowed to march. In 1946, a marching band for girls formed, and in 1955 the two bands were combined into one.

How would there be a female founder if women weren't allowed to be in the band during the founding of Kappa Kappa Psi?

Know the circumstances behind the facts before you just go off on seemingly ignorant accusations.

So I take your 2 cents and raise you my 19

To put in my $19.19 with all due respect:

When another bruh/soror ITB makes a statement that comes across as inaccurate/ignorant/stupid (or even if you just don't agree with it), it never looks good when another member of the same org redresses that person in front of non-members. You could have just stated the facts without "pointing the finger".

I'm just sayin', take the high road...

AEA

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by blkwebman1919

To put in my $19.19 with all due respect:

When another bruh/soror ITB makes a statement that comes across as inaccurate/ignorant/stupid (or even if you just don't agree with it), it never looks good when another member of the same org redresses that person in front of non-members. You could have just stated the facts without "pointing the finger".

I'm just sayin', take the high road...

AEA

Each of you could have also used the PM feature if sincere brotherhood was more important than publicly being correct.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Each of you could have also used the PM feature if sincere brotherhood was more important than publicly being correct.

ftw

[blkwebman1919]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Each of you could have also used the PM feature if sincere brotherhood was more important than publicly being correct.

Agreed. My intention was to make a point in general for all members of the org, so I didn't use the PM.

To PSientist - Mea Culpa...

[PandaOnProzac]

At the same time you gotta think about the change over time. Progression doesn't stop and it can only get slowed down. It was inevitable that women would be allowed into the fraternity.

Personally I've played what if games about the founding fathers. Back in the day what would have gone through their minds if they knew a non white male was in the fraternity? I often wonder beyond the Guide to Membership hand book what they really were as people in terms of equality and racism.

[psi_chotic02]

I have no doubt that our fathers knew that other races would soon be initiated into our frat....You can tell by the oaths and charges that we take in our rituals....I mean, how can you say what an outstanding musician looks like. An outstanding musician has no face.....no matter what race or gender.......BUT TBS was created in light of KKPsi to do basically the same things under the understanding of SISTERHOOD. I know that this is the era of Title IX's and women's independence, but the Bible speaks of women as "the weaker vessel.." This doesn't mean spiritually, because your spirit has no limitations on how strong it can be. I know many women that are much closer to God than men. This text is obviously referring to the physical limitations that a woman has, in respect to that of a man. To me, women that join KKPsi instead of the ajoining TBS chapter at their school, are basically slapping Wava Banes in the face.....

[bonelifer]

To me, women that join KKPsi instead of the ajoining TBS chapter at their school, are basically slapping Wava Banes in the face.....

What, by being strong enough of a woman to make their own choice as to what organization they were in. I doubt very seriously if Wava would give a flying-squirrels-ass as to what choice a particular person makes. In fact if Wava felt that way then she'd be slapping herself with 4ton block of shit, because TBS was started to give women the chance to make their own choices in the realm of the band, when bands where mostly men. So if a woman chooses KKPsi over TBS then she has made a choice to "THINK" for herself and not let others tell her what people she will associate with.

Delta Chi Chapter, Kappa Kappa Psi
(yeah, that's right, it's the dirty dirty
south smacking you in the face.)

[psi_chotic02]

Actually.......Wava had a specific purpose in mind when making the our beloved sister organization......i mean, ....u have to ask yourself the question........Why is there a TBS??? I'm not saying that i wouldn't accept a female brother anyway.......but the phrase "female brother" is an oxy moron by itself......
I equally hate to see male sisters!!! I mean, what the heck is that??? A MALE sister???? It's just unbelievable what America sees as legit these days........
I'm sure that Wava would much rather see a Sorority full of girls than a sorority full of guys.....As well as the fathers a frat. full of guys than full of girls........i mean, lets be honest!

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by psi_chotic02
Actually.......Wava had a specific purpose in mind when making the our beloved sister organization......i mean, ....u have to ask yourself the question........Why is there a TBS??? I'm not saying that i wouldn't accept a female brother anyway.......but the phrase "female brother" is an oxy moron by itself......
I equally hate to see male sisters!!! I mean, what the heck is that??? A MALE sister???? It's just unbelievable what America sees as legit these days........
I'm sure that Wava would much rather see a Sorority full of girls than a sorority full of guys.....As well as the fathers a frat. full of guys than full of girls........i mean, lets be honest!

and

Originally posted by psi_chotic02
my opinion is that if the founding fathers wanted to send a clear message about women being in the frat......they would've had at least one women founder (I mean, i know there had to be at least ONE female member in the band).....THEY wouldn't call themselves fathers.........WE wouldn't be called brothers.......and THIS wouldn't be a brotherhood!!!

First of all, most of the guys who are members of TBS say they are brothers of TBS. I haven't met a guy yet who calls himself a sister of TBS. And even if I do, that's perfectly fine.

Second of all, what does it matter what sex you are if you are joined together with a group of people for the same purpose? What does it matter if the founders of your org. are men and it is now full of women? Or vice versa? One of Chi Omega's founders was a man but you won't hear one of them complain about it! We learned that women were admitted into KKPsi during WWII when the men were all shipped off to war...they were initated to keep the fraternity from dyeing off due to low numbers. Kinda' like in the movie "A League of Their Own" when women start playing baseball.

You should already know the purposes, but here they are again:

"Be it known that Kappa Kappa Psi, National Honorary Fraternity for College Bandmembers, is an organization operating exclusively in the field of the college and university bands, and for the following several purposes:

(1) To promote the existence and welfare of the college and university bands and to cultivate at large a wholesome respect for their activities and achievements.

(2) To honor outstanding bandmembers through privilege of membership extended as a reward for technical achievement and appreciation for the best in music.

(3) To stimulate campus leadership and promulgate an uncompromising respect through the medium of the college band for gracious conduct, good taste and unswerving loyalty.

(4) To foster a close relationship between college bands and promote a high average of attainment by the performance of good music and selection of worthwhile projects.

(5) To provide a pleasant and helpful social experience for all engaged in college band work and to cooperate with other musical organizations in any manner consistent with the purposes of the institution at which chapters are located."

Nowhere does it say "brother" or "men" or "boys" or "brotherhood." So really, by calling ourselves "brothers," it's not really something that is official. There is currently a thread on this board somewhere and I'm sure there are several more where the different sororities discuss whether they were founded as a "sorority" or a "fraternity." My sorority is known as Alpha Xi Delta National Fraternity. That does not in any way make us "brothers" of our fraternity. Fraternity is just a word, and defined by the dictionary as "a body of people associated for a common purpose or interest, such as a guild." Where does that mention that it is chiefly male or that the members are known as "brothers" or "sisters?"

If you have such a problem with this, why did you join KKPsi to begin with?

[PandaOnProzac]

We all have our opinions but keep in mind we're all brothers that experienced the same ritual and principles. I personally accept anyone as a brother in the bond of music and service.

I don't want to stir up trouble but if you have a problem with KKPsi being coed then there are things you can do to deal with it. Personally I wanted the all male fraternity experience and that's why I pledged Phi Delta Theta. As a dual greek I can see it from both perspectives. If you want the all male experience then there are plenty of other greek organizations out there. Some people have given me crap for being in both. Some feel I may have left the brotherhood of KKPsi but the truth is I love both equally. But anywho yeah if you want there are other opportunities out there.

[Attractive#7]

Originally posted by psi_chotic02
I'm not saying that i wouldn't accept a female brother anyway.......but the phrase "female brother" is an oxy moron by itself......

Is it really??? The word brother is not always used to describe gender.

Brother
1. A male person who has the same father and mother with another person, or who has one of them only. In the latter case he is more definitely called a half brother, or brother of the half blood.
2. One related or closely united to another by some common tie or interest, as of rank, profession, membership in a society, toil, suffering, etc.;
3. One who, or that which, resembles another in distinctive qualities or traits of character.

I could go on with the defintions of the word brother that have nothing to do with your gender, but you get the point...I hope