Duke Frat in Trouble for Party Theme

[sugar and spice]

Jules --

I think that is a decent point and I know I'm as guilty of it as anyone in this thread. I think things got more heated than they needed to be.

BUT

In my opinion, this is not okay. If a group of people says, "Hey, this thing that you guys did really hurt us," and you say, "I don't really care how you feel about it, I'll do what I want to do, and by the way, you're overreacting so just stop whining and shut up about it" -- that is not okay. You can't do that and still claim that you're trying to live up to the ideals of your organization, because you're not. Hurting people and being selfish are not the ideals any of our GLOs were founded upon, and the thing that blows my mind is that this is something that would be so easy to fix! Just avoid mixers with derogatory ethnic themes and we'd all be fine. Is it really that hard to do a naughty schoolgirls mixer instead of pimps and hoes?

If this was another situation apart from race, would people have reacted this way? If a fraternity was promoting negative stereotypes about women, about religion, about whatever . . . and people were getting offended, we would have blasted the fraternity for being an insult to the Greek world. Why is it different with race?

I think race is such a touchy subject in the Greek world and especially on GC that BOTH sides tend to blow things out of proportion.

This is one of those things that looks horrible for the Greek system. Because even if you (general you, not you personally ) don't see it as being selfish, dismissive of other people's feelings and experiences, and hurtful -- there are many outside of the Greek system (and in it!) that do. And we can't continue to call ourselves the creme de la creme of the college crop if we do things that we know are hurtful. That's why so many anti-Greeks keep citing the hypocrisy of the Greek system.

Unfortunately, because of our history, we have to be exceptionally PC -- sometimes to the extreme -- and especially when it comes to race. It's no different than our hazing or drinking rules. It's just that race is a much touchier subject than hazing or drinking.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
and i'm sure that 24-7 you are a perfect example of your fraterinity's or whatever the hell PMA simfonia is, ideals?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

No, I wouldn't say that I am at all. But I do try and I would hope that we all try to live by and demonstrate our fraternity's or sorority's values, and that's the point I was trying to get at here. Obviously, I did a particularly lousy job of trying to get it across.

But before I get back to it, I did say in my post that it would come off as "preachy or superior." That acknowledgment alone should have told me not to post it. My sincere apologies to all, and particularly to Jules and cash78mere. You are right -- I know nothing about anyone's life -- including their commitment to the GLO's values and how they live them out -- and I shouldn't suggest otherwise based on isolated posts.

But this is the deal as I see it -- we Greeks spend a lot of time and energy trying to convince non-Greeks on our campuses (not to mention administrations) that we are about more than parties, having a good time and, yes, elitism. We point to service and philanthropies and to the values we stand for and try to live by. (And we point to our creeds, symphonies, etc., to say "this is what they stand for and what we try to live by.")

And then, a chapter goes and throws a party with a theme that anybody smart enough to get into college ought to know is likely to offend other students on campus. And when complaints are registered, some Greeks sometimes (no one specific on GC being singled out -- I'm talking in generalities) respond with comments along the lines of "some people are just too sensitive, we can't be responsible for what some other people may find offensive." All that does is reinforce stereotypes of us, that regardless of what we say about service, values and principles, we're just about having a good time and really don't care what anyone else thinks about it.

Fortunately, that does not seem to have happened at Duke. The chapter involved quickly said "we're sorry, we meant no offense" and acted like it does matter to them that someone was offended, even if no offense was intended.

And that's all I'm trying to say. Each of our fraternities and sororities have meaningful values and ideals that can make real differences in our lives and in the lives of those we come into contact with. I just think we ought to be encouraging each other to live by those values, and in so doing depriving anti-Greeks of ammunition to use against us. Unfortunately, I did a really bad job of trying to get that idea across. Again, I apologize for that.

I'll be quiet for the remainder of this thread now, much to the relief of many, I'm sure.

edited for clarity, which still may not be completely there.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by sugar and spice


I think race is such a touchy subject in the Greek world and especially on GC that BOTH sides tend to blow things out of proportion.

That is why I suggested on page one that this thread should be closed. True, I have particiapted in the discussion, but it has gotten off topic and degenerated into name calling and finger pointing.

[Optimist Prime]

Some people need to be more sensitive. Some people need to be less sensitive.

[TCV]

You said it!!
~TCV

[LambdaPapi]

Would a frat put on an event like this in schools like UM, Barry, Rutgers, and other schools with a large Latino population. (1)no, because in those schools, most students are aware that something like that would offend part of the population. (2) if an event like that was put on, they would catch a quick one to the chin. by that, I mean they know they would get hell for it. I am an immigrant myself, though not Mexican. I personally don't care if something like that went down cause it would show me how ignorant those people having the event are.

[Honeykiss1974]

I swear, i've said it before and I'll say it again...........stuff like this is the reason why we need art/music programs back in schools because for some reason, people are lacking in the creativity department and seem to think mess like this is "creative" or funny .

Has EVERY theme for a party been used......I mean every one? Dag, I hate to see what themes will be used 10-15 years from now?

[IvySpice]

Sugar & Spice, you hit the nail on the head, as usual.

Even if the PC culture is wrong -- even if everyone is overreacting -- even if there is nothing whatsoever that is remotely offensive about any party theme mentioned in this thread -- it is bad for individual organizations and the Greek system as a whole to get this terrible press. And the terrible press is a predictable result of this kind of party. That's just the way the world is in 2003.

Given that reality, I really, really hope that each GLO chapter will eventually decide that their positive reputation is more valuable than the prerogative to have a "White Trash" party instead of an "I Love the 80's" party.

Ivy

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by Blue Violets
P.S. It's not really that big of a deal here. In fact, all of ten people showed up for the "protest" or "demonstration" or whatever the media's been calling it. And no one is getting in trouble and no one is "outraged"--at least not really anyone I've talked to. The media has blown this out of proportion!

I think this is the best thing posted thus far! Thanks, Blue Violets, for letting us in on the real deal at Duke

As for the use of AX's symphony - I really would like to see that part edited out. As Cash said, this is not a discussion about AX or its ideals -- if a non-greek member, or a member who didn't disclose his/her affiliation, had posted, then what would have been used against him/her?? Our Symphony is a beautiful statement of the higher Fraternity ideals that each sister should strive for - but it is significant and important in its words and deeds to US - the members of Alpha Chi. It should not be used as a "weapon" to degrade one of our members based on what she chooses to share as her opinion. To use it as such, is a slap in the face to all Alpha Chi's -- I would ask that you please consider editing it out of this thread.

[Munchkin03]

It's not a slap in the face to me. If I was going to say something that could be construed as terribly offensive to someone on this board, chances are I wouldn't have my letters on my signature. As it is, I don't already. I know that with letters on my signature, it brings added scrutiny.

But, what do I know? I try to keep my affiliation out of most things here.