Affirmative Action

[Eirene_DGP]

Originally posted by damasa
I'm not trying to pick apart your post and this is the only post I'm leaving on this topic. But who is to say the reverse? Who is to say these African-American students ARE from racist schools? Who is to say their teachers did give them lower scores?

And over-opinionated white peers? I don't think we need to generalize like this....

Those were hypothetical questions..... As Sugar and Spice mentioned earlier, you never know the circumstances of the students who apply.

[FeeFee]

Originally posted by LeslieAGD
These kinds of statements make me so angry!
(counting to ten...trying to control myself)

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but making these kind of assumptions and a person assuming he/she is always getting the short end of the stick is what really keeping that person down.

In support of Eirene_DGP's post, this is from my Social Psychology paper, "The Effects of Prejudice on the Public School System". This is applicable, regardless of educational level......


Years ago, the Lanier and Wittmer (1977) study proved that despite similar cognitive abilities, both African-American and Caucasian educators held the belief that black students were academically inferior compared to their white counterparts. The educators views may have been due to either a lack of open-mindedness or a lack of education in regards to children who are culturally different. Unfortunately, this practice still exists. There is proof of biases by educators when dealing with grades, punishments and rewards. The students are very aware of the unspoken forms of discrimination displayed in the classroom.

Hope this helps, Eirene.

[sugar and spice]

I don't think she was saying that it happens in every single case . . . just that you'd have to be naive to think that it never happens.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I did fairly well in high school, but I'm not going to pretend that it was all due to my "hard work." I had a lot of advantages that many of my classmates didn't have (parents that read to me and bought me books as a kid, parents who enrolled me in "enrichment programs" and extracurricular activities and extra classes when I was as young as 4, AP and honors and advanced classes, I was raised in an environment that made higher education pretty much a necessity and not a choice, my parents could afford to pay for me to take the SAT as many times as I wanted or run track or apply to ten different colleges had I wanted to, I had enough time that I could participate in lots of extracurricular activities . . . and the list goes on). If you'd given my classmates all the same advantages that I'd had, I have no doubt that all of them, no matter what race, could have done just as well or better than I did.

That's why this talk about "If they really wanted it, they'd bust their asses to do it" bothers me -- because I didn't bust my ass to get into college! Most of my white college-attending friends didn't either. Why should a black person have to work twice as hard as I do to achieve the same results?

You can't deny the fact that people of color are more likely to face discrimination than white people within the educational system. That's a given.

[MattUMASSD]

I have to agree with sugar and spice, you can have so much determination but without the right support you can't go very far.

[PM_Mama00]

I agree with Sugar and Spice also. If you have the background and the family that supports you in school and other activities, then it is going to be easier for you. If you don't, then you just need the drive.

A little off subject but to prove what I just said, and Sugar and Spice's.... everyone I know that I went to high school with (and no I didn't go to school with the whole world so I'm just talking about MY peers at MY school) that did well were from families that helped their children. They were involved, whether it be from attending one little sports event, to being on the PTA or whatever. My friend did horrible in school as well as her two brothers. Their parents worked alot and weren't really around for them. She didn't do too well in school, however her sister worked her ass off and and did awesome in school.

This just goes to show that it doesn't matter if you are black or white, it's support that counts.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by FeeFee
Years ago, the Lanier and Wittmer (1977) study proved that...

With all due respect...

If a study were done today, it might show the same results...or it might show the exact opposite.

A lot has changed in the world, society and education over the past 26 years.

I'm certainly no expert on this, but I'd want more recent reserch. I suspect that one of the reasons for the initial study was to identify that kind of prejudice and work to reverse those feelings. Or, at least, I would hope so.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
[This just goes to show that it doesn't matter if you are black or white, it's support that counts.[/color]

Sorry for yet another post, but PM must have been typing her's while I was doing my last...

For the most part, I agree. Parental support can be among the most important parts of a student's academic career.

On the other hand, the student also has to be self motivated. Both of us went to EVERYTHING in which any of our three were involved.

Our oldest graduated HS with high academic honors and Summa Cum Laude (I'm never sure how to spell that) from college.

Our youngest is a National Merit Scholar and finished his Freshman year in college with a 4.0.

Our middle -- well, we weren't sure until the final day of high school that she would graduate. She didn't go to college, and probably would have been a disaster if she had.

So, yet again, you just can't make blanket ascessments.

[madmax]

Originally posted by enlightenment06
I think that wouldn't really solve the problem. Far too many students of color face a disadvantage just based on the cultural structure of our country. We have made great strides as a nation in the past few decades, but you can't erase centuries of a system of mental genocide with 40 years of progressive legislation (see Spike Lee's "Bamboolzed". I don't feel I can fully express my point here, to do so would be far too long a post. However I hope you can kind of see where I'm coming from.

If Spike See says it, then it must be true.

[MattUMASSD]

well I think there is a higher probability that a student will succeed if he or she has stong parental supprt.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
With all due respect...

If a study were done today, it might show the same results...or it might show the exact opposite.

A lot has changed in the world, society and education over the past 26 years.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw the date of the study!

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Sorry for yet another post, but PM must have been typing her's while I was doing my last...

For the most part, I agree. Parental support can be among the most important parts of a student's academic career.

On the other hand, the student also has to be self motivated. Both of us went to EVERYTHING in which any of our three were involved.

Our oldest graduated HS with high academic honors and Summa Cum Laude (I'm never sure how to spell that) from college.

Our youngest is a National Merit Scholar and finished his Freshman year in college with a 4.0.

Our middle -- well, we weren't sure until the final day of high school that she would graduate. She didn't go to college, and probably would have been a disaster if she had.

So, yet again, you just can't make blanket ascessments.

DeltAlum -- when I made my post about the importance of factors other than motivation, I wasn't just addressing parental support, but also peer support and teacher support. Parental support is a strong factor, but peer support is probably almost as important, and the support of teachers factors in to a lesser degree.

Part of what I had going for me was the fact that my parents always stressed how important education was, and how important doing my best was -- but it was also very dependent on the fact that I was mostly friends with kids who did well in school, prized education, wanted to go onto college, and participated in extracurriculars.

[madmax]

Originally posted by MattUMASSD
well I think there is a higher probability that a student will succeed if he or she has stong parental supprt.

True.

How come blacks that do not have strong parental support which results in lower academic achievement and lower earning power, feel the need to blame whitey for all of their social and economical problems?

[Cloud9]

Originally posted by madmax
True.

How come blacks the do not have strong parental support which results in lower academic achievement and lower earning power, feel the need to blame whitey for all of their social and economical problems?

You're an idiot.

[sugar and spice]

And now let's play the "How many GC threads can we get locked today?" game!

[MattUMASSD]

I know