High school hazing on The Early Show

[BSUPhiSig'92]

School districts in downstate Illinois have successfully punished students for things that have happened at non-sponsored, off-campus events. The precedence is there, so what works downstate should work in Glenbrook.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by ChiOJenn78
Ursuline

ChiOJenn--

Our chapter president went to Ursuline!!!!

[starang21]

what's going on here? what is their punishment? i haven't been keeping up with this lately. i heard that they still got to graduate. is that crap true?

[IowaHawkeye]

So I guess what you were trying to say is that Glenbrook North is the 342nd best public high school in the country (here's the list)

Here's the latest on the situation from the chicago suntimes:


31 Glenbrook seniors expelled in hazing
May 27, 2003

BY MAUREEN O'DONNELL Staff Reporter Advertisement

For hours, school board members played and replayed videotape of the shots seen around the world.

They scrutinized footage of a notorious May 4 hazing where senior girls pummeled junior girls.

By 1:15 a.m. Monday, the end of their almost 10-hour-long meeting, they had voted 5-0 to expel 31 seniors from Glenbrook North High School--28 girls and three boys--and doled out individual punishments.

"They agreed that the board would assign [each of the 31 students] a certain number of hours of community service and a certain number of hours of counseling,'' said Anthony Scariano, an attorney for Northfield Township High School District 225. "Some students got as many as 60 hours of community service. Some got as many as 10.''

Of the 31 students, 28 have signed agreements with the school not to fight disciplinary action. They'll be allowed to get their diplomas once they complete coursework and counseling and perform community service, Scariano said.

Asked if the three who chose not to sign waivers will get diplomas, Scariano said: "I don't know how you graduate if you don't complete required courses.''

However, a source close to the school board said those three students could also earn diplomas if they complete their coursework.

The expulsions are not "a logical resolution or a fair one,'' said Dolores Ayala, an attorney for senior Liat Gendelman, who did not sign a waiver. She filed suit in federal court challenging her suspension in the matter.

Liat helped the junior girls who were subjected to the hazing, Ayala said. "Not only was Liat not violent, but she [offered] assistance and consolation to them, helped them wipe off their faces with towels, things like that,'' her lawyer said.

The Cook County state's attorney's office charged 15 seniors--12 girls and three boys--with battery in the incident at Chipilly Woods near Northbrook, where six junior girls were injured. Liat was not among them.

Prosecutors are better equipped to assess culpability than school officials, Ayala said, and "if they thought Liat had committed an assault and battery, they would have charged her.'' Liat's federal suit is before Judge Charles Kocoras.

"I don't think this board has jurisdiction over an event that happened off campus,'' said George Grumley, an attorney for a student who signed a waiver.

"I don't think it's fair, either,'' Grumley said. "They appear not to have taken into consideration the widely varying degrees of culpability among the children. Some of the children, from the tapes I saw, were way out of line, hitting and pummeling the younger girls, and others were comforting the girls.''

There's plenty of blame to go around because the school, police and parents knew hazing had gone on before, Grumley said.

Scariano retorted: "For an hour and a half, feces, coffee grounds, whipping cream, syrup, dirt, fish, cleaning supplies were dumped on kids who were beaten up and terrorized. Where is the responsibility?''

A source close to the school board said parents of 20 junior girls involved have been told the district plans to suspend them, but will immediately rescind the move if they agree to counseling and a promise not to break school rules. About 14 juniors signed the agreement, the source said.

School Supt. Dave Hales said in a statement the 31 seniors are barred from school grounds through June 2004, including graduation and graduation night activities.

Two board members did not participate in the vote.

[starang21]

Originally posted by IowaHawkeye
So I guess what you were trying to say is that Glenbrook North is the 342nd best public high school in the country (here's the list)

Here's the latest on the situation from the chicago suntimes:


31 Glenbrook seniors expelled in hazing
May 27, 2003

BY MAUREEN O'DONNELL Staff Reporter Advertisement

For hours, school board members played and replayed videotape of the shots seen around the world.

They scrutinized footage of a notorious May 4 hazing where senior girls pummeled junior girls.

By 1:15 a.m. Monday, the end of their almost 10-hour-long meeting, they had voted 5-0 to expel 31 seniors from Glenbrook North High School--28 girls and three boys--and doled out individual punishments.

"They agreed that the board would assign [each of the 31 students] a certain number of hours of community service and a certain number of hours of counseling,'' said Anthony Scariano, an attorney for Northfield Township High School District 225. "Some students got as many as 60 hours of community service. Some got as many as 10.''

Of the 31 students, 28 have signed agreements with the school not to fight disciplinary action. They'll be allowed to get their diplomas once they complete coursework and counseling and perform community service, Scariano said.

Asked if the three who chose not to sign waivers will get diplomas, Scariano said: "I don't know how you graduate if you don't complete required courses.''

However, a source close to the school board said those three students could also earn diplomas if they complete their coursework.

The expulsions are not "a logical resolution or a fair one,'' said Dolores Ayala, an attorney for senior Liat Gendelman, who did not sign a waiver. She filed suit in federal court challenging her suspension in the matter.

Liat helped the junior girls who were subjected to the hazing, Ayala said. "Not only was Liat not violent, but she [offered] assistance and consolation to them, helped them wipe off their faces with towels, things like that,'' her lawyer said.

The Cook County state's attorney's office charged 15 seniors--12 girls and three boys--with battery in the incident at Chipilly Woods near Northbrook, where six junior girls were injured. Liat was not among them.

Prosecutors are better equipped to assess culpability than school officials, Ayala said, and "if they thought Liat had committed an assault and battery, they would have charged her.'' Liat's federal suit is before Judge Charles Kocoras.

"I don't think this board has jurisdiction over an event that happened off campus,'' said George Grumley, an attorney for a student who signed a waiver.

"I don't think it's fair, either,'' Grumley said. "They appear not to have taken into consideration the widely varying degrees of culpability among the children. Some of the children, from the tapes I saw, were way out of line, hitting and pummeling the younger girls, and others were comforting the girls.''

There's plenty of blame to go around because the school, police and parents knew hazing had gone on before, Grumley said.

Scariano retorted: "For an hour and a half, feces, coffee grounds, whipping cream, syrup, dirt, fish, cleaning supplies were dumped on kids who were beaten up and terrorized. Where is the responsibility?''

A source close to the school board said parents of 20 junior girls involved have been told the district plans to suspend them, but will immediately rescind the move if they agree to counseling and a promise not to break school rules. About 14 juniors signed the agreement, the source said.

School Supt. Dave Hales said in a statement the 31 seniors are barred from school grounds through June 2004, including graduation and graduation night activities.

Two board members did not participate in the vote.

so they still get their diplomas this year and they just get to miss out on the festivities? or am i reading this wrong?

[Tom Earp]

You are reading this correctly!

They should get their diplomas for the work that they did and do jail time for in turn what they did!

I just love the parents of these little asswholes who sued over the whole thing when it was on tape for the whole world to see!

The parents ought to be sued by the victums for being dumb assed parents who have no damn control over their brats!

[AXJules]

Originally posted by IowaHawkeye
So I guess what you were trying to say is that Glenbrook North is the 342nd best public high school in the country (here's the list)

I never said that I worked for Newsweek and knew in advance what the rankings would be for this year. We have been within the top ten for over 30 years, consistently, so if you want to do it mathmatically it would be fair to say that is where the school HAS ranked. I'm sorry if this wasn't statistically up to your standards.

The other link was posted, we can all check it and see where the school ranks. Don't flatter yourself in thinking you "proved me wrong" in something I never claimed. I'm sorry, I really don't understand where the attitude is coming from. Adding a smiley face wearing some sunglasses doesn't cover up the way you post something.

[AXJules]

And Starang, or anyone else interested-
The seniors who agreed to the expulsion have to:
do 60 hours community service
go to academic and psychologic counseling
finish their coursework either at an off campus facility or through the mail

They can't attend graduation or Grad Nite.
With this, they will graduate on time. Their grades have been frozen at what they were before this happened- so they don't take finals...basically if they had all A's a week ago, that's what they'll graduate with. I think this is ridiculous. An expulsion is just that-- when you are expelled those count as ZEROS towards your attendance points, therefore you fail your classes. Freezing grades and letting them out early??? Sounds like vacation to me...Even the juniors have to come back after their suspensions and take finals!! That totally pisses me off.

i really think, with how careful and pressured they've been to deliver sound punishments, they could have done a better job. They claim they were given out on a case by case basis, but everyone suspended that was a senior was given the expulsion offer. Many girls suspended only participated by wiping juinors' faces and helping them to cars, therefore I don't think they should be expelled. Conversely, the ones strangling people with pig intestines shouldn't even GET a diploma from GBN. An expulsion should be you OUT OF THE SCHOOL. Permanently. It's really not our problem that you turned psycho and now don't know where you're going to get a diploma from.

[momoftwo]

Originally posted by AXJules
I never said that I worked for Newsweek and knew in advance what the rankings would be for this year. We have been within the top ten for over 30 years, consistently, so if you want to do it mathmatically it would be fair to say that is where the school HAS ranked. I'm sorry if this wasn't statistically up to your standards.

The other link was posted, we can all check it and see where the school ranks. Don't flatter yourself in thinking you "proved me wrong" in something I never claimed. I'm sorry, I really don't understand where the attitude is coming from. Adding a smiley face wearing some sunglasses doesn't cover up the way you post something.

AXJULES, I think this post was referring to the post immediately ahead of it. There are a number of different rankings of public schools--this is just one of them. There are more than 14,000 high schools that are eligible for this list--it's still something to be proud of! From the District 225 website, here are the recent accolades GBN has received (I'm not sure how up-to-date this is):

Presidential Award for Excellence in Teaching Science, 2001
Named Outstanding High School in America by U.S. News & World Report, 1999
Newsweek Magazine Top 300 Public High Schools, 2000
National Debate Champions, 1974, 1986, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001
Presidential Scholar, 1987, 1993, 1996
As part of the First in the World Consortium, GBN students scored first in the world in international math & science testing.
U.S. Senate Youth Award, '92, '96
USA today Academic All-Star, 1994, 1996
Golden Apple Teaching Award, 1995
Kohl & Tandy Teaching Awards, 1991 & 1992
National Speech Championship, 1990
Sun-Times Top Ten suburban high school, 1984
Excellence in Education Award, U.S. Department of Education, 1984
Named as a Grammy Signature School for excellence in choir, orchestra & band, 2000

The recognition that was most meaningful to me, as a parent in the district was the "Outstanding High School in America" by US News and World Report in 1999 (when this year's Seniors were graduating from 8th grade). Both GBN and GBS received this honor. That recognition evaluated schools for excellence in relationship to expectations. Given the socio-economic status of the district (and the way Illinois funds public education), one would expect GBN and GBS to turn out high achieving students. But that particular report identified schools that had high achieving students who exceeded the expectations based on the income and education levels of the students' parents.

You hear a lot about the "wealthy" nature of Northbrook. And yes, there are some spectacular homes in the area. But there are also a lot of folks who've paid ridiculous prices to live in modest homes so their kids can get the "extra something" a District 225 education can provide. It is a shame that the actions of a bunch of selfish, spoiled girls, at least some of whom have parents who are just as bad, have ruined the reputation of what truly is a fine school.

I've always taught my children that it takes years to build a reputation and minutes to destroy it--this is such an example of that. The local paper ran a story discussing the economic impact of this situation. They quoted some "expert" saying that every home in Northbrook is worth $10,000 less because of it. I'm not sure that's a valid assessment, but I'm sure it will be a negative factor on Northbrook for people for which high school quality is a criteria in their relocation decision.

The village and the district have put together a task force to try to determine the forces at work that made this happen and to take actions to prevent it from occurring in the future. I was in the grocery store in Northbrook over the weekend and every employee in the place was wearing Green and Gold badges that said "Respect Yourself, Respect Each Other". (They were the idea of an eighth grade girl.) I am confident that soon the attention will die down and the school and the village will begin to heal.

[momoftwo]

Originally posted by IowaHawkeye
Two board members did not participate in the vote.

I is interesting (to me, at least) that one of the board members who did not participate in the vote was the board member, Keith Babb, whose son was a spectator. There has been a lot of criticism of his comments in the community. I'd like to see him resign from the school board--I think he showed poor judgement and questionable character. (Although I am happy that he recused himself from these discussions.) His comments about how he taught his son to walk away from trouble were particularly disturbing because that story appeared on the same page as a story about a holocaust survivor.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by AXJules
I never said that I worked for Newsweek and knew in advance what the rankings would be for this year. We have been within the top ten for over 30 years, consistently, so if you want to do it mathmatically it would be fair to say that is where the school HAS ranked. I'm sorry if this wasn't statistically up to your standards.

The other link was posted, we can all check it and see where the school ranks. Don't flatter yourself in thinking you "proved me wrong" in something I never claimed. I'm sorry, I really don't understand where the attitude is coming from. Adding a smiley face wearing some sunglasses doesn't cover up the way you post something.

It's unfortunate that we have come to this -- and I'm including the quote that to which AXJules is reponsding:

So I guess what you were trying to say is that Glenbrook North is the 342nd best public high school in the country (here's the list)

which may or may not have been a subtle slam at the comments about being 3rd best in the US or whatever.

That's why in a much earlier post I question how these lists come about and how the decisions are made.

The list(s) are great morale builders for the schools involved -- but what about the other really good high schools that don't make the list? It is said -- with no documentation that I've seen -- the the school system we live in is "one of the top ten in the nation." And, in fact, two of the five (soon to be six) high schools in the district were on "the list." But, frankly, there is very little difference between the five schools. What this kind of thing does do, though, is give certain of the students at the other three schools a real complex of not measuring up. Which makes the motivated work harder, and the less motivated to give up -- leaving those in the middle not knowing or not caring what to do.

And one school in the Denver district, which is generally believed to be the second best school in the state didn't make the list at all -- while several other schools from other districts did.

It also appears to me that a huge amount of weight is given to schools who offer the IB program. Great program, but I'm not sure it's worth that much in terms of overall weight in this kind of survey.

Again, as I said earlier, I don't know how you can make the kind of decision without visiting every school in the country.

Finally, I really wonder, as others have as well, if this had been a school of lesser stature whether such a big deal would have been made.

Oh well, random thoughts for a Wednesday morning.

[momoftwo]

Originally posted by DeltAlum

Finally, I really wonder, as others have as well, if this had been a school of lesser stature whether such a big deal would have been made.

That's a good question! We moved from the city to the suburbs to get away from the "roughness" our kids were being exposed to. I don't want to get into too much detail here, but suffice it to say they had an unfortunate experience that drove our move. IMHO, the reason the hazing captured attention was because it showed that kids can behave badly NO MATTER where you live or where you go to school. It makes people who have to deal with issues in their schools and who don't have as much as what they perceive people in Northbrook have feel better about their situations. I think that did drive a lot of the media coverage.

Illinois has very uneven school funding. It is heavily reliant upon local property taxes. The state's contribution to education is among the lowest in the nation. For example, District 225 spent $14,931 per student in 2002 (third highest spending in the Chicago area) while the lowest spending school district in the region spent $6,352 per student. This disparity has a huge effect on property values from district to district. This unfairness is considered an issue by many in the media and that bias could have fueled some of the initial coverage. The fact that it was on tape made it a story difficult for any news editor to resist.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by momoftwo
This unfairness is considered an issue by many in the media and that bias could have fueled some of the initial coverage. The fact that it was on tape made it a story difficult for any news editor to resist.

"If it bleeds, it leads!" The battle cry of young TV News producers. Not always true, but you are correct that the videotape shown would be very hard to ignore.

If any of you are interested, you might look at some comments I made on the experience levels of some of the "gatekeepers" who decide what you see on TV. It is on the "Are you worried about society" thread. http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...5&pagenumber=2

In terms of funding education, I think most states have the same problem as Illinois in terms of rich vs. poor school districts. Colorado has just passed a voucher law which will pay for tuition costs to allow students to cross those boundries. I'm not sure that's the right answer, and only a very few will be able to take advantage of it. But that's a whole other argument.

Final note to momoftwo: I believe that in one of your first posts after your "lurking" career that you said you were concerned about your young adults pledging when you hear and read so much about hazing, etc. May I suggest that, given some of what has been said here, you carefully study the Greek System at the college your children attend, then look closely at the national and specific chapter they are considering before making a "global" decision?

While, in many cases, I am a defender of the media because I've spent a long time as part of it, it is very easy to make incorrect assumptions about a large group of people based on the mistakes of a few of them.

Best of luck in your decisions.

[starang21]

Originally posted by AXJules
And Starang, or anyone else interested-
The seniors who agreed to the expulsion have to:
do 60 hours community service
go to academic and psychologic counseling
finish their coursework either at an off campus facility or through the mail

They can't attend graduation or Grad Nite.
With this, they will graduate on time. Their grades have been frozen at what they were before this happened- so they don't take finals...basically if they had all A's a week ago, that's what they'll graduate with. I think this is ridiculous. An expulsion is just that-- when you are expelled those count as ZEROS towards your attendance points, therefore you fail your classes. Freezing grades and letting them out early??? Sounds like vacation to me...Even the juniors have to come back after their suspensions and take finals!! That totally pisses me off.

i really think, with how careful and pressured they've been to deliver sound punishments, they could have done a better job. They claim they were given out on a case by case basis, but everyone suspended that was a senior was given the expulsion offer. Many girls suspended only participated by wiping juinors' faces and helping them to cars, therefore I don't think they should be expelled. Conversely, the ones strangling people with pig intestines shouldn't even GET a diploma from GBN. An expulsion should be you OUT OF THE SCHOOL. Permanently. It's really not our problem that you turned psycho and now don't know where you're going to get a diploma from.

that's what happens when spoiled rich kids have a distorted sense of reality and have their parents hand shit to them all the time.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by starang21
that's what happens when spoiled rich kids have a distorted sense of reality and have their parents hand shit to them all the time.

He's speaking the truth...I've been hanging out with a bunch of HS friends since I'm back from school and sadly, we all could see this happen at our school. When you flip your brand-new Jeep a week after your 16th birthday and then get a new one ASAP, you have no idea about finances, consequences, and assume your parents can fix everything. Guess what? They usually will. It's pathetic. I will admit I call my parents when I am having a problem, but they don't fix it for me. I know parents who have called their kids college to try and get stuff fixed for them - it's sick.