Fred Hatchett

[Q-T Pie]

Fred, I am as Christian as the next person. I went to Catholic school up until junior high and continued being involved in my church even while attending a public high school. You remind me a lot of a family member of mine. She is 11 years old & reads the Bible everyday. Like her, I think you are taking the readings too literal. Everyone sins, but to imply that the root of all evil comes from the Greek system is extremely unfair & untrue. I'm glad that you have found God & have, in your eyes, become a better person, but my question is: Why do you continue to criticize? You stated your view on the Greek system & everyone heard, so why do you insist on continually restated your opinion? It is something, which obviously annoys the majority of those reading it, and doesn’t exactly belong on a PRO-Greek website. Don’t get me wrong, your opinion is important, but why can’t it be more positive every once in a while. If I am wrong in some way or another I’d appreciate you or anyone else letting me know.

Thanks

Allison


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Somewhere, somehow, it should be possible to touch someone and never let go again. To hold someone, not for a moment but forever.

[Fred Hatchett]

I used to be catholic as well. They say things and people take them literally even when it directly contradicts the Bible. Going to church, getting baptized, paying tithes and offerings, etc. does not make one Christian, and Catholics are by no means Christians. The Bible is predominately literal. If I am taking things too far then why did Jesus choose to die for us. Jesus cannot exist apart from His Word. If Jesus said that fornicators will go to hell, He means it. He said that hypocrites, homosexuals, idolaters, liars, etc. will go to hell. These words describe lifestyles, not occasional mess-ups. Repentance means to change. The catholics still operate under the priesthood system; a system that Jesus abolished on the cross( The Book of Hebrews). Catholics call Mary a co-redeemer. The Bible says that Jesus alone is our Redeemer, Savior, Deliverer, King, and Master. When one does not know God's Word, they will not understand why GLO's are ungodly.

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[This message has been edited by Fred Hatchett (edited January 14, 2000).]

[charlotte]

Fred--
Greeks are ungodly? Absurd. Our sorority motto is "Service in Trifold-- God, Community, School." Note that God comes first and foremost. Our organization is local and only 30 years old, and yet four of our alumni went on to become minsters. In fact, the advisors for our sorority are the campus minister and his wife. If greeks are so "ungodly," why would a minister be so devoted to a sorority, being involved in every aspect of greek life? And no, they do not come to every meeting to try and save us from the firey clutches of hell... sorry!

Charlotte
Phi Delta Omega

[Fred Hatchett]

According to you they are unequally yoked with sinners. They are not performing the ministry of reconciliation in II Corinthians 5. Read Matthew 7:21. Every minister, pastor, apostle, etc. is not going to heaven. Let me see your ritual. If your organization is good, you should have nothing to hide. You put God first, but is it the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Is it Jesus?

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[This message has been edited by Fred Hatchett (edited January 18, 2000).]

[PenguinTrax]

Fraternity and Sorority members to not pray to mythological gods and goddesses. These mythological personalities serve to remind us of the high moral standars by which we should live in service to the world and our Fraternity. For example, ZTA's "patron" ooddess is Themis, the goddess of justice and truth. In our creed, ritual and open motto we strive to live truthfully and honestly.

The rituals of most Greek orgs are based on 19th Century Christian theology. There are exceptions, such as the traditionally Jewish fraternities and sororities and the non-sectarian groups that use no religion whatsoever in their rituals. This is open knowledge and you don't have to "see" the rituals to find this out.

Asking to see a copy of rituals serves no purpose. If the other groups are like ours, the chapter only owns one copy of a ritual book and it is kept in safety by the Ritual Chairperson. There's no way that most of the people here would give you their rituals, out of loyalty to their fraternity.

Some groups don't even write down their ritual - it is passed down as an oral history. Delta Upsilon's ritual is public - anyone can attend their ceremonies.

If you feel that Greeks are "un-godly", why do you bother posting here? You won't change us, we won't change your opinion and everything remains status quo. It's about as pointless as the Baptists wanting to convert all the Jews, Hindus and Buddhists.

[GregFIJI]

It is interesting that you mention Matthew 7:21 in your post. Go just 20 verses earlier and read Matthew 7:1-6. 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged." 5"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your (christian) brother's eye."


God was very clear in Matthew 7:21. Not everyone who calls his name will go to heaven. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." To believe in him means you are saved, and to be saved..."If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved." Romans 10:9.

I joined a GLO for the leadership, brotherhood between men, and networking. I became a Christian because I believe in God and his plan for my life. I also believe that joining a GLO was God's plan mfor me. I go to church each week with 5 of my fraternity brothers, who before I invited them to my church they had never or seldom went to any church. I am winning people for christ, and if that takes joining a GLO to do so, then I will trust God and glorify his name in the process.

[mgdzkm433]

Good job Greg. You are totaly right! I sighted Matthew 7:1-6 earlier in another forum, I personally like 7:6 I believe that would be of some use to fred. He needs to reflect a bit. Everyone believes different things. Remember for every person in the world that reads the Bible there is a different interpretation. Nobody is going to agree on every aspect of the Bible. I happen to agree with you on this particual passage, however our friend fred will probably not. He will see only what he wants to see. That is ok. Who is to say he is wrong. But then again, who is to say that he is right. The same goes for us. Untill we kick the bucket, not a single person alive with know the true meaning of any passage that has ever been written, or if the christian faith is the "right" faith. I believe in God and I believe that Christianity is the right way to go, but that is me. Who knows, I could be wrong. I am methodist, but maybe the church of christ is right, or catholic, or baptist, or mormon. Who am I to say that anyone is wrong or right. Who is Fred to say who is wrong or right? I've said it before, and I'll say it again If christianity is the right way to go, Jesus died for all ouf our sins not just one person.

[Fred Hatchett]

I took the log out of my eye five years ago when I denounced my frat. mzgdk whatever- The Bible says that the scriptures are not for any private interpretation. The Word of God settles it, not denominations. Jesus settled it in John 14:6. It is done His way which is the Bible way. Greg? Do you call the sinners in your frat your brothers? If so, II Corinthians 6:14-18 condemns you, not me.

[mgdzkm433]

fred,

do you think that you are godly? do you have private conversations directly with christ. how do you know what is right and what isn't. I'm curious because you are just coming off as bing a bible beating jackass. but then again, pushing your view onto everyone else might be what jesus wants you to do, right? How do you know what christ's interpretation is. did he tell you. and don't say it is in the bible because you would have to intrepret that in you own way. you are not a god you are a human. you are not perfect, nobody is. perfection is unatainable. you can not expect to interpret everything as christ would.

[ElleDelta3]

Fred...
Where in the bible does it is say that all sororities and fraternities are evil? As you said in a previous post, the bible is literal. No where in the bible have I seen a direct quote saying that all sororities and frats are evil and worship things other then God and Jesus.
Another thing I noticed that you said, was that Catholics are not Christian. I am very Catholic and take great offense to that comment. YOU ARE OFFENDING ME AND MY RELIGION, SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD LEAVE!! You said in another post you are not out to offend, but you offended me, so please stop. If I am not Christian, then neither are you. I am not out to condem others, such as religious groups or social organinzations (such as frats), but you are and that is not a Christian thing to do. Jesus loves us all, no matter what the lifestyle, he will forgive us. You quote the bible left and right, so you think that you would have soaked up some of that knowledge in that sacred book, I do not think that you have. PLease stop coming here. I just want to talk to other greeks, and not see your anti greek posts.
Another thing, what made you join a frat in the first place. Apparently you saw the same great things that we all see. Why did you join, that is one thing that you never told any of us. If you think that we are bad people, then I guess you were one too. If GOD forgave you, then don't you think that he will forgive us (in your mind...as we are doing nothing wrong).
Do you not see all the good things that the greek system does? We do charity work and alot of it. My sorority raised over $5,000 last year for child canser research. Do you do charity work? I believe the bible says that good Christians help others out, such as charity work.
That is my piece of mind.......

[GregFIJI]

Yes, fred, I dio call the sinners in my fraternity my brothers... "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". Does that mean that I can't call my father dad because he sins? Does that mean that I can't call my christian brother brother because he sins? Why do you only focus on greeks?

This is just my opinion, but I think taht most people on this site will agree with me. If you really think that God has put you on this earth to denounce GLO's then fine. Don't let me stop you. Here is a hint, though...instead of bashing what we as GLO members think about God's part in our and our GLO's life, tone down your argument. The only thing that you are getting across right now is that you are stubborn and are not open to anyone else's opinion, which doesn't fly when talking about Christianity. I went to a church service tonite with 14 of my brothers and 40+ other greek students on my campus. God is moving through our greek system because we are inviting people to church and are willing to listen to what they believe in.

Back to a point in my first message about judging...in case you forgot to read the Bible on this topic, or didnt know that it was in teh Bible, here are a few places to look...espically since you are so eager to say who or what denomination is or isn't christian (your comment about Cathloics applys here)--
1. Don't judge others' motives or convictions (1 Cor 4:3)
2. Don't judge others personal convictions (Rom 14:1-8)

[Alabama]

Fred---
You are acting like the Church of England back in the 16th century. If we have different beliefs than you, we are going to hell. I don't believe so. I am a believer in God, but I am also what you may call a realist. I have read the bible from cover to cover, and in my interpretation, the bible contradicts itself. Adam and Eve were made n God's image and they were the only two, and for million's and millions of peole to spawn from them there would have to be some nasty things going on like incest! Yea, and that is a major sin.
You also refered to fornication in your first posting, how is anyone to have children? Imaculate conception? I don't think so.
You have your believes and I have mine. The difference is that I don't force my opinion on others, and when they do not believe, I don't condem them for that.
I do have one question though, if God created the world, and then Adam and Eve, where do the dinosaurs fit in? We know that they were around at some point!

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alabama

Frank,
The Bible, Jesus, Religion, Greeks, Love:
It all seems the same to me... Love your Brother. It is not your job to choose who is condemed, that is for God to decide. If we are all going to hell, well, I know in my heart that I love Jesus, and he died for my sins... My sorority has based itself on The Love of Jesus and the charitable work we do is for our God. If I am going to go to hell because I love my fellow sorority sisters and I know in my heart that I am doing the right thing by being a part of this amazing group of women, then so be it.
The truth will be seen... and my immortal soul, well, for that it is up to my Lord to decide... Not You.

Sister Sam
Phi Delta Omega

[mgdzkm433]

Sister Sam,

Thank you for you imput. We all believe the same things as you. Your opinion means a great deal to other greeks concerning this issue, we all feel the same way. Fred has interupted our forums and has created chaos. He has even e-mailed some of members and has wrote terrible things. I am pleased to let you know however, Fred is no longer with us. What I mean is: He has been banned from this site. He no longer can post his judgement on greeks. Like I stated above, thank you for your support in this issue. It is people like you that support us and give your opinion that make all the difference.

Mikki

Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter



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"Why not upset the apple cart? If you don't the apples will rot anyway."

Frank A. Clark

[John]

Yes, Fred was banned from these forums for posting too many inappropriate messages (which were deleted) & for harassing some members via email. The thread about banning him is at:
http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/...ML/000111.html

It's time to move on from the *chaos* Fred caused here so I am closing this thread.

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John Hammell
Network Administrator, GreekChat.com