Transwomen and rush.

[jbakajp]

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

They wouldn't know, per se...we don't ask for birth certificates, so it's all down to disclosure...and I feel like that gets sticky. The qualification for memberships in many organizations is, "are you a woman?" and since trans women are women...

But are they? Not everyone agrees.

Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women." according to Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lawsui...cbo=v2-gXlIl0H

Who else was wondering when this was going to happen?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by jbakajp

But are they? Not everyone agrees.

Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women." according to Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lawsui...cbo=v2-gXlIl0H

Who else was wondering when this was going to happen?

I came across this story this morning. Seems like there are more details here: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03...gender-member/

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by jbakajp

But are they? Not everyone agrees.

Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women." according to Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lawsui...cbo=v2-gXlIl0H

Who else was wondering when this was going to happen?

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I came across this story this morning. Seems like there are more details here: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03...gender-member/

Thank goodness a few persons have been paying close attention to their situation, and have the wherewithal to take steps to improve their best interests and satisfy their outcome.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I came across this story this morning. Seems like there are more details here: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03...gender-member/

How does Kappa, or how do the offended Kappa women, prevent Artemis from writing articles/books about his experience and/or give interviews regarding same?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

How does Kappa, or how do the offended Kappa women, prevent Artemis from writing articles/books about his experience and/or give interviews regarding same?

Apparently Artemis already has given interviews to the student newspaper when bids were handed out.

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/10...gender-member/

It’s like rain on your wedding day.

[jbakajp]

Originally Posted by jbakajp

Some members of the KKG chapter at University of Wyoming are suing their national president and organization for "betray[ing] the central purpose and mission of Kappa Kappa Gamma by conflating the experience of being a woman with the experience of men engaging in behavior generally associated with women."

Sorry to be quoting myself, but I wanted to post an update to lawsuit status:

https://www.thecollegefix.com/sorori...e-male-member/

The article has a link to the actual, amended filing with the U.S. District Court, District of Wyoming.

While the filing is in the public domain, one thing that I would respectfully request is for the GreekChat community to refrain from using the names of the people involved on both sides of the lawsuit. We all have usernames that protect our anonymity, so it would be fair and in the Panhellenic spirit to share that grace with the members of KKG as best we can. Thank you.

[carnation]

I have taught students who identified as transgender for many, many years. And at least 90% of them have gone back to their birth gender...all I can figure out is that the grass wasn't greener on the other side or the whole thing was for attention (now people will notice me, how can I piss off my parents, etc.) This is why I don't put much stock in statistics about increasing numbers.

[SWTXBelle]

I have several transgender friends; I have a family member who is transgender; I have taught transgender students. Not a one of them was doing it for attention, and in fact, they would have loved to NOt have attention given to them for being transgender. That, of course is anecdotal and not something to base a general statement on, but luckily, resources exist which are more far-reaching: https://apnews.com/article/transgend...c77b5371c6ba2b

Some people's fascination with others genitals is worrisome. You start getting into chromosomes and hormones, and open up a whole can of worms that can easily be avoided by simply allowing people to be themselves.

The issue should be the pressure put to bear on KKG members to pledge someone they didn't wish to pledge, and who apparently did not meet the minimum qualifications.

As to creepy, criminal, or bothersome behavior - it should be addressed with the individual via the proper channels, be they the law, administration, or those in charge.

[jbakajp]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I have several transgender friends; I have a family member who is transgender; I have taught transgender students. Not a one of them was doing it for attention, and in fact, they would have loved to NOt have attention given to them for being transgender. That, of course is anecdotal and not something to base a general statement on, but luckily, resources exist which are more far-reaching: https://apnews.com/article/transgend...c77b5371c6ba2b

Some people's fascination with others genitals is worrisome. You start getting into chromosomes and hormones, and open up a whole can of worms that can easily be avoided by simply allowing people to be themselves.

The issue should be the pressure put to bear on KKG members to pledge someone they didn't wish to pledge, and who apparently did not meet the minimum qualifications.

As to creepy, criminal, or bothersome behavior - it should be addressed with the individual via the proper channels, be they the law, administration, or those in charge.

If we're talking strictly about the KKG lawsuit, then there are clearly identified issues it addresses, such as failure to follow written membership determination procedures, satisfaction of minimum grade requirements, etc.

However, the larger issue is the letting people be themselves - is a transgendered woman an actual man or an actual woman? Why should society (or a sorority) be obligated (demanded) to treat, accommodate, and accept a transgendered person as opposite of the person's birth sex/gender? And if/when a transgendered member reverts to his birth sex, then the sorority has to deal a gazillion issues it never would have had, but for lack of staying true to its founding as an organization of, by, and for women.

It doesn't matter if the anecdotal majority of transgendered persons don't *want* attention, it matters that the sororities are turning themselves inside out to accommodate those that want to be members. Supposedly, this is very few people, and yet, the time and treasure of the sororities on the chapter and national level being spent on the matter of transgender acceptance is astonishing.

[SWTXBelle]

The sex assigned at birth is usually based on genitals, while we now know that factors such as chromosomes and hormones can make that determination wrong, not to mention intersex births (usually 1 in 1500 - 2000) births. If you want to use birth certificates as the standard, be aware that in many states they can be changed (47); so how do you propose to gatekeep? Genital inspection? Chromosome id? Hormone tests?

I also would like some hard data as to how often this has been a problem for a sorority. What is this "turning inside out" that is occuring? I admit I am only current on mine, so on what are you basing the idea that it is taking an "astonishing" amount of time and treasure?

[jbakajp]

@SWTXBelle - I appreciate your questions, and I will address them soon. Your patience is appreciated.

[jbakajp]

Originally Posted by carnation

I have taught students who identified as transgender for many, many years. And at least 90% of them have gone back to their birth gender...all I can figure out is that the grass wasn't greener on the other side or the whole thing was for attention (now people will notice me, how can I piss off my parents, etc.) This is why I don't put much stock in statistics about increasing numbers.

While I agree that many will likely revert to their birth gender, there are numerous scenarios that will need to be addressed. After all, the person no longer satisfies the initial membership requirement of being or identifying as the correct sex for that organization, but the person was promised lifetime membership.

What happens to the membership of the now previous transgendered person if the reversion occurs after initiation into the now opposite gendered sorority or fraternity? If the person remains a member, how does that affect the sister- or brotherhood dynamic, living arrangements, etc? If the reversion occurs after becoming a new member (pledge), but before becoming an initiated member, then how should the chapters and national organizations handle? Can a bid be revoked in this scenario? Or, if the reversion happens after graduation, should the national organization turn a blind eye? For this last question, I suspect that the willful blind eye is the current answer, but someone please speak up if you know differently. Also, I think it is safe to say that a blind eye does not work in the collegiate space.

[carnation]

I'm betting that the huge majority of transgenders wouldn't pledge, except for the people who want to make a big and public splash. Remember the guy at Bama?