So, recs...

[AnchorAlumna]

Strictly speaking, since my sorority requires that a member (alum or collegian) write a rec for a PNM before she's invited to pref, a "generic" rec from a non-member isn't even worth the paper it's written on.

Some people think you have to personally know the PNM to write a rec. No, you don't. Look...a rec is about character and personality. The chapter already has the list of activities, the awards and honors.

What they need to know are things like does this girl tell the truth? Is she dependable? Is she kind to others? Does she enjoy pushing people around? Like to cause drama? Is she a hypochondriac? Is she shy? Maybe the reason her grades are a little low is that she was really sick her entire sophomore year...that title she won as Top Camper is more of an honor than you might realize.

And I don't have to personally know her. I can get that info from someone else. Maybe I know someone who goes to her church, or coaches her team, or who drove her carpool in 9th grade.

It's not the good girls we need to know about. It's the bad ones. And frankly, it's a crap shoot. I've seen girls with sterling recs turn out to be ones whose goal was to sleep with the entire football team, or who are so bedazzled by their pot-dealing boyfriend they ruin the reputation of the entire chapter. Or one that a chapter could have easily found an alum who might have warned them that this NM has major mental problems, found after she took a knife to a classmate. Even with recs, you never really know.

[AnchorAlumna]

We used to never ask a PNM to find a rec. That was the chapter's job.
But when you have 2200 PNMs, you could have a crew of 30 working 24/7 all summer long and not be able to find recs on all of them. Asking PNMs to find recs helps.

BTW, it's pretty easy to see that a rec writer doesn't really know anything about the PNM.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

We used to never ask a PNM to find a rec. That was the chapter's job.
But when you have 2200 PNMs, you could have a crew of 30 working 24/7 all summer long and not be able to find recs on all of them. Asking PNMs to find recs helps.

BTW, it's pretty easy to see that a rec writer doesn't really know anything about the PNM.

Yes. As carnation has repeatedly reminded us this summer one of the responsibilities and privileges of sorority membership is using your social and community connections to learn of, and promote greek life to, quality high school and college-age women. This job usually falls equally on sorority collegians and alums, who will then write/revue the recs so necessary to the process.

When a campus uses deferred recruitment, the opportunity to become better acquainted with WOC who might be interested in NPC membership but have few NPC connections falls more toward sorority collegians. I believe the current generation of collegians is plenty anxious to have WOC join their sororities, just as there have been plenty of collegians during the past 70+ years with the same attitude.

For the benefit of those who currently doubt that WOC have not, until just now, been given a fair shake at NPC membership I can only state do your homework on the subject and be fair to those attempting to understand and gently correct your misreading of NPC history.

One can always hope we'll continue noting upward trends in the total number of WOC joining our NPC groups, but as carnation laments WOC sometimes have other logical ideas.

[shadokat]

As someone who just witnessed a dear friend's daughter go through recruitment at Alabama, the rec requirement is a MAJOR hurdle for women who aren't from in state, who don't come from the South, who are first in the family to go to college and I could go on. The rec, while we may not like to admit it, is a way to keep exclusivity alive, on a way larger scale, than any legacy policy ever could.

My friend's daughter had recs to many of the chapters at Alabama, and it didn't mean a whole lot. As a matter of fact, the two groups she had at the end, she didn't have recs for, and the organization she is now a new member of, she didn't have a rec for them.

So carnation, and you know i love you, but the rec didn't help her one bit in the sororities she did have them for, and didn't matter in the ones she ended up with. Does that make sense and explain why they exist then? I don't think so.

[carnation]

What happens behind the scenes if a girl doesn't have a rec and the sorority loves her: they get an alum to come write one based on her application. At a lot of schools, the need to do this is rare because most girls have recs but I can see how Bama would need to do that. That could be what happened!

I think that often these days, we use them as a way to warn a chapter away from a girl who could be a big risk--might get dragged in drunk most nights or in the case of one girl I dealt with, post a video of herself peeing on our main street on New Year's Eve. We need to know something about the women we pledge! No one wants their charter jerked or even penalized because of something a girl did on her own.

I'm glad she pledged!

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by shadokat

As a matter of fact, the two groups she had at the end, she didn't have recs for, and the organization she is now a new member of, she didn't have a rec for them.

You forget that we are still seeking recs for girls who don't have them! Plenty of girls pledge a sorority for which they think they don't have a rec, but they do.

By the way, this is how we Southerners find recs for people we don't know!
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1677498515738768

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

You forget that we are still seeking recs for girls who don't have them! Plenty of girls pledge a sorority for which they think they don't have a rec, but they do.

But again, the question is: then what's the point?

If the PNM didn't get a rec herself and still received a bid - and she had an "unknown" rec written for her - it seems like the checking of a checkbox KiteChick described above.

Does that really add any value, or is it a simple "The chapter likes this girl, a rec is required, so here it is!"?

[AnchorAlumna]

It's not an unknown. It's a rec by someone, usually from her hometown or with a connection there, who will check her out with, say, a team coach, a friend who goes to church or dance class with her, a teacher at her school.
Check that video. It's humorous, it's exactly how we do it!

[shadokat]

Video is funny!

Her mother and I got her 8 of 17 recs for the houses. If they found something else, I guess all the better, but it sort of defeats the purpose of the rec if you ask me. I'll stand by my "recs = exclusivity" rant for awhile. But I'm just a northeast bitch, bless my heart

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

You forget that we are still seeking recs for girls who don't have them! Plenty of girls pledge a sorority for which they think they don't have a rec, but they do.

By the way, this is how we Southerners find recs for people we don't know!
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1677498515738768

[robinseggblue]

I got an email from [Alpha Phi] nationals this year stating that recs cannot be considered mandatory and rec status cannot be used against a PNM.

Saw this posted on Reddit by someone who self-identifies as an Alpha Phi. I understand if it's too private to confirm since it does fall under membership selection, but I would be interested to know if this is true.

It sounds like a good change for inclusivity, but I'm also a northeast bitch sitting with shadokat.

[robinseggblue]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

Strictly speaking, since my sorority requires that a member (alum or collegian) write a rec for a PNM before she's invited to pref, a "generic" rec from a non-member isn't even worth the paper it's written on.

My sorority has basically the same requirement and I disagree. I mean, sure, this type of recommendation isn't worth it to the sorority who requires the rec to be from an alumna.

However, the content of a rec from a non-member can still be extremely valuable. And that's what I'm referring to when I say that I think sororities will figure out how to weigh these recommendations.

I'm sure each organization will do it differently. Perhaps some will continue to disregard the content of the non-alumnae recommendations. Perhaps some will use the content of the non-alumnae recommendations to have an alumna write a recommendation for a PNM they really like. Perhaps some will change their internal policies to allow for PNMs to have a recommendation from a non-alumna.

I have no idea how this will go, but I do personally think that this is a good step forward in terms of decreasing the variance in quality of recommendation content received based on PNM connections.

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

Some people think you have to personally know the PNM to write a rec. No, you don't. Look...a rec is about character and personality. The chapter already has the list of activities, the awards and honors.

What they need to know are things like does this girl tell the truth? Is she dependable? Is she kind to others? Does she enjoy pushing people around? Like to cause drama? Is she a hypochondriac? Is she shy? Maybe the reason her grades are a little low is that she was really sick her entire sophomore year...that title she won as Top Camper is more of an honor than you might realize.

And I don't have to personally know her. I can get that info from someone else. Maybe I know someone who goes to her church, or coaches her team, or who drove her carpool in 9th grade.

I don't disagree with most of the content of what you've written in your posts, I just disagree on who can write a valuable recommendation. After college, I used to work on the admissions side of higher education and I've also had the privilege of writing recommendations for my sorority for people I did and didn't know.

You're basically saying that if you don't personally know the PNM, you still have to know someone you trust who does personally know the PNM to write a reliable rec. If a PNM has a 2nd degree connection like that, then IMO that is the obviously the person to go to for the rec. However, not everyone has that type of connection.

A teacher or guidance counselor who knows the PNM well would also be the person to know these types of things about the PNM. Both of these positions involve people who observe a lot while students are in school or supervising their after-school activities. Teachers and guidance counselors also have lots of experience writing recommendations for students to college.

College admissions offices are certainly looking for recommendations about a student's character and not simply regurgitation of a resume that is already on the college application. Sure, some applicants get recommendations from teachers who do not know them, but those aren't considered strong recommendations.

If someone doesn't have 1st or 2nd degree connection to sorority alumnae, I still think that having a teacher/coach/guidance counselor who knows them personally write a rec is much more valuable in terms of finding out the PNM's character.

Also, having more sources for quality recommendations would help sororities be more inclusive. This is a seemingly unpopular opinion on GreekChat, but I do believe that WOC are more disadvantaged by the necessity to get recommendations for some NPC organizations and/or some campuses.