Another School, Another Mass Fraternity Suspension

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I didn't say it was a new thing. NPC groups would suffer in terms of membership if fraternal groups adopted NPC alcohol policies.

My point was that while you want to blame alumni for not getting the message, we know exactly what the issue is. Sigma Nu tried to pass an alcohol free housing initiative in the early 2000s. It was overwhelmingly defeated at our Grand Chapter. It's a non-starter, never going to happen.

We use education by mandating members take the alcohol.edu course every single year (maybe every semester?)

No amount of education, well-meaning rules, or threats is going to stop 18-21 year old people from overconsuming and doing stupid things. It's a force of nature.

What you can control at the end of the day is how well your organization reacts when someone does the stupid thing. That's where alumni can be helpful. It's also where alumni can be very unhelpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keTbsSfMOdI&t=47s [whether that was allowed by alumni or perpetuated, it wins that category forever].

But blaming alums for 18-21 year old kids doing amazingly terrible things? Nope.

Pick your poison.

Either throw your hands up in the air and just say 'Well, there's nothing we can do" and let the alcohol abuse continue, or get sued out of existence and / or get kicked off campus by school admins because your org is not taking control of the problem.

NPHC had a history of hazing problems - people were getting seriously harmed and some died. We were faced with dealing with the problem or literally getting sued out of existence. We made the choice - zero tolerance on hazing. Members and chapters caught hazing are disciplined (suspended, expelled).

I know that in SGR all undergrad sorority functions must have chapter advisers present.

My point is that it all depends on how IFC fraternities want to handle the problem.

If *you, IFC member*, aren't going to take control and deal with this, others will and they won't be so nice about it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Pick your poison.

Either throw your hands up in the air and just say 'Well, there's nothing we can do" and let the alcohol abuse continue, or get sued out of existence and / or get kicked off campus by school admins because your org is not taking control of the problem.

My chapter has never had a hazing problem--and that is an interesting discussion as we were chartered in 2002. We don't have a hazing problem because we haven't ever had members with a tradition of hazing. Looking at our larger, more traditional chapters, one can only speculate now, but when I was an active attending conventions, spending time with guys from other chapters, I'd say some definitely hazed.

NPHC had a history of hazing problems - people were getting seriously harmed and some died. We were faced with dealing with the problem or literally getting sued out of existence. We made the choice - zero tolerance on hazing. Members and chapters caught hazing are disciplined (suspended, expelled).

This is pretty much the same for NIC (and former NIC groups) but YMMV as far as how responsive an HQ is.

I know that in SGR all undergrad sorority functions must have chapter advisers present.

How do you define a sorority function? I can see chapter advisers being present for initiation. But 6 of your members and their significant others and a few randos want to get together,and mayhem ensues, was that a chapter function?

My point is that it all depends on how IFC fraternities want to handle the problem.

If *you, IFC member*, aren't going to take control and deal with this, others will and they won't be so nice about it.

Structurally, we are different than NPC and other conferences. The NIC does not govern. They do not legislate. They mostly represent our combined interests to outsiders by doing things like lobbying. What they cannot do is tell Sigma Nu we have to have fully alcohol free housing. It isn't their place.

IFC is a different group at each school at many schools, NPHC affiliated groups and MCGLOs are members of the IFC. SAE and Lambda Chi are not members of the NIC, but I'm sure most of their chapters still participate in their local IFC.

I, an alumnus, am not a member of any IFC. When I was chapter adviser, I did not answer to or have really any dealings with our IFC.

And I think we largely are taking care of business. I think you have a few schools with strong traditions of hazing and partying that are hard to change because those groups still have the same alums coming back to teach about how things were in the good 'ol days.

I think you'll see these trends are mostly occurring in chapters which have had these trends. Largely, newer chapters whose early alumni take care to isolate themselves from bad traditions are going to have a better trajectory.

Unfortunately, there's too much money in those mainline Division I school chapters to do what needs to be done in a lot of cases and let them sit dormant for 20 years or so.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Kevin

My chapter has never had a hazing problem--and that is an interesting discussion as we were chartered in 2002. We don't have a hazing problem because we haven't ever had members with a tradition of hazing. Looking at our larger, more traditional chapters, one can only speculate now, but when I was an active attending conventions, spending time with guys from other chapters, I'd say some definitely hazed.



This is pretty much the same for NIC (and former NIC groups) but YMMV as far as how responsive an HQ is.



How do you define a sorority function? I can see chapter advisers being present for initiation. But 6 of your members and their significant others and a few randos want to get together,and mayhem ensues, was that a chapter function?



Structurally, we are different than NPC and other conferences. The NIC does not govern. They do not legislate. They mostly represent our combined interests to outsiders by doing things like lobbying. What they cannot do is tell Sigma Nu we have to have fully alcohol free housing. It isn't their place.

IFC is a different group at each school at many schools, NPHC affiliated groups and MCGLOs are members of the IFC. SAE and Lambda Chi are not members of the NIC, but I'm sure most of their chapters still participate in their local IFC.

I, an alumnus, am not a member of any IFC. When I was chapter adviser, I did not answer to or have really any dealings with our IFC.

And I think we largely are taking care of business. I think you have a few schools with strong traditions of hazing and partying that are hard to change because those groups still have the same alums coming back to teach about how things were in the good 'ol days.

I think you'll see these trends are mostly occurring in chapters which have had these trends. Largely, newer chapters whose early alumni take care to isolate themselves from bad traditions are going to have a better trajectory.

Unfortunately, there's too much money in those mainline Division I school chapters to do what needs to be done in a lot of cases and let them sit dormant for 20 years or so.

I substituted hazing for alcohol abuse as an example of how the governing body of a GLO had to tackle an issue that was threatening the functioning of the entire international organization.

Again, SGR had a similar problem with older alums coming back to their undergrad chapters to teach them about pre-MIP pledging. To deal with the problem our IHQ revoked chapter charters and suspended / expelled members. Ultimately members started getting the message.

Our advisers are expected to be in attendance at any and all sanctioned chapter events - recruiting, initiation, parties, and fundraisers. If our undergrad members are going to have a function in the name of SGR an adviser must be there. Period.

You can give up 20 years and come back as a better chapter or you can give up the 100-150 years of existence.