Standing Up To Bullies As A Kid Prepared Me To Challenge Hazing as a NM & Initiate

[Kevin]

So that's a loaded as hell question. There are three opinions which matter. 1) your organization; 2) your state and local law enforcement and should something go awry, 3) the FIPG.

Is it hazing if as part of the scavenger hunt, I require you to bring me the charter off of the wall of some sorority house? Probably so since that scavenger hunt is asking you to commit burglary and larceny. If I'm asking you to take a picture of the place the original chapter house stood twenty years ago? Probably not if you're asking state and local law enforcement.

If you're asking the FIPG, which is likely your chapter's liability insurance carrier, hazing is defined as:

Any*actions*taken*or*situation*created,*intentiona lly,*whether*on*or*off*fraternity*premises,*to*pro duce*or*that*
causes*mental*or*physical*discomfort,*embarrassmen t,*harassment,*or*ridicule.**Such*activities*may*i nclude*
but*are*not*limited*to*the*following:*use*of*alcoh ol;*paddling*in*any*form;*creation*of*excessive*fa tigue;*
physical*and*psychological*shocks;*quests,*treasur e*hunts,*scavenger*hunts,*road*trips*or*any*other*such*
activities*carried*on*outside*or*inside*of*the*con fines*of*the*chapter*house;*kidnappings,*whether*b y*pledges,*
associate/new*members*or*active*members;*wearing*of*public*a pparel*which*is*conspicuous*and*not*
normally*in*good*taste;*engaging*in*public*stunts* and*buffoonery;*morally*degrading*or*humiliating*g ames*
and*activities;*and*any*other*such*activities*that *are*not*consistent*with*academic*achievement,*fra ternal*law,*
ritual*or*policy,*or*the*regulations*and*policies* of*the*educational*institution,*or*applicable*stat e*law.

So if the FIPG includes scavenger hunts as against policy, then it's very likely against your organization's policy as well and thus, hazing in the opinions of one of the three groups which matter.

[fraternitynik]

It was kind of rhetorical - but you're right, it's against most organization's policies.

I was trying to make the point that our classification of "scavenger hunt = hazing" has not necessarily improved our ability to combat hazing; it may simple force chapters not to talk about their scavenger hunts.

Originally Posted by Kevin

So that's a loaded as hell question. There are three opinions which matter. 1) your organization; 2) your state and local law enforcement and should something go awry, 3) the FIPG.

Is it hazing if as part of the scavenger hunt, I require you to bring me the charter off of the wall of some sorority house? Probably so since that scavenger hunt is asking you to commit burglary and larceny. If I'm asking you to take a picture of the place the original chapter house stood twenty years ago? Probably not if you're asking state and local law enforcement.

If you're asking the FIPG, which is likely your chapter's liability insurance carrier, hazing is defined as:



So if the FIPG includes scavenger hunts as against policy, then it's very likely against your organization's policy as well and thus, hazing in the opinions of one of the three groups which matter.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So that's a loaded as hell question. There are three opinions which matter. 1) your organization; 2) your state and local law enforcement and should something go awry, 3) the FIPG.

This, though I'd add a 4th opinion that matters: the college or university's.

Meanwhile, what happened to the long-standing GC rule that prohibited, or at least strongly frowned upon, threads created mainly to link to another blog/forum?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

This, though I'd add a 4th opinion that matters: the college or university's.

Meanwhile, what happened to the long-standing GC rule that prohibited, or at least strongly frowned upon, threads created mainly to link to another blog/forum?

1) You're very right that the University's opinion matters. Should have included that. Mah bad.
2) So you're going to do me like that? Going to make me go all ubermod on this poor guy?

MysticCat is right, OP. I'll let this one slide, you had no idea, but GC doesn't exist so you can promote your blog with our more than decent traffic count. That inbound link and the link in your signature will help with your SEO and I'm going to leave that one alone. Some other supermod or mod might think otherwise and take it down, but I'm leaving it for now.

Feel free to work out some sort of deal with the site's owner who can be private messaged. His name is John. Super good guy. I'm sure he'll be more than reasonable with you.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

2) So you're going to do me like that? Going to make me go all ubermod on this poor guy?

Just making sure you're earning that sweet übermod pay.