Can white people sing the n-word? UNH sorority in trouble

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by TLLK

To use this word to antagonize or degrade another person-no I don't believe that anyone from any racial/ethnic group should use it in that manner. To sing the published lyrics of a popular song that include this word-I don't think that this should be an issue. Is everyone expected to ignore its use in original versions in literature or historical documents?

I've read your comment over and over, and I feel that you are contradicting yourself.

If it's never okay to use the N-word, then it is never okay to use the N-word. NO MATTER WHO SAYS IT!!

If you (the general you) know and are aware of the meaning of the N-word, and just because you hear someone else use it, no matter if they are Black, White, Asian, or Martian, does not mean it is okay.

And, I think when White people hear Blacks use it, you always get the excuse 'Hey, they say it all the time, so can I!"

Again, no.

But, with that being said, let me try to explain it like this:

Say you have a brother and/or sister. When you all were kids, sometimes you would fight and argue and maybe even call each other names, like stupid. You love each other, you have a strong family bond, but sometimes you all would still get mad at each other. So, you have your fight, call each other names, then cool off and go back to being friendly and loving like nothing ever happened. At the end of the day your strong sibling bond keeps you together.

Now, let's say you are at a bar and by accident you bump into someone, causing that person to spill his drink. They get mad and call you all sorts of names, like stupid, and he wants to fight. You did not mean any harm but he just keeps calling you stupid and want to fight. A total stranger you don't know keeps insulting you to no end. You feel bad that the drink was spilled, but he won't let it go and after a while you get offended.

When Blacks use the N-word with each other, there is a tolerance for its use due to a shared cultural experience/history.

When Whites use the word, there is no shared cultural experience or history. The historical use of the N-word by Whites has been used in the context of insult and to demoralize a Black person.

The meaning of the N-word has not changed.

And for the use of the N-word in literature written years ago, that was the accepted word at the time. So, in the historical context that the work was written, I personally don't have a problem with it. At that time, Blacks were seen as a second class citizen at best and less than human at worst. Now, though, that is not the case, so the use of the N-word is really useless.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I've read your comment over and over, and I feel that you are contradicting yourself.

If it's never okay to use the N-word, then it is never okay to use the N-word. NO MATTER WHO SAYS IT!!

If you (the general you) know and are aware of the meaning of the N-word, and just because you hear someone else use it, no matter if they are Black, White, Asian, or Martian, does not mean it is okay.

And, I think when White people hear Blacks use it, you always get the excuse 'Hey, they say it all the time, so can I!"

Again, no.

But, with that being said, let me try to explain it like this:

Say you have a brother and/or sister. When you all were kids, sometimes you would fight and argue and maybe even call each other names, like stupid. You love each other, you have a strong family bond, but sometimes you all would still get mad at each other. So, you have your fight, call each other names, then cool off and go back to being friendly and loving like nothing ever happened. At the end of the day your strong sibling bond keeps you together.

Now, let's say you are at a bar and by accident you bump into someone, causing that person to spill his drink. They get mad and call you all sorts of names, like stupid, and he wants to fight. You did not mean any harm but he just keeps calling you stupid and want to fight. A total stranger you don't know keeps insulting you to no end. You feel bad that the drink was spilled, but he won't let it go and after a while you get offended.

When Blacks use the N-word with each other, there is a tolerance for its use due to a shared cultural experience/history.

When Whites use the word, there is no shared cultural experience or history. The historical use of the N-word by Whites has been used in the context of insult and to demoralize a Black person.

The meaning of the N-word has not changed.

And for the use of the N-word in literature written years ago, that was the accepted word at the time. So, in the historical context that the work was written, I personally don't have a problem with it. At that time, Blacks were seen as a second class citizen at best and less than human at worst. Now, though, that is not the case, so the use of the N-word is really useless.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on the topic. I'll take it into consideration.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

When Blacks use the N-word with each other, there is a tolerance for its use due to a shared cultural experience/history.

My issue here is essentially the "Fresh Prince of Belair" situation (or if you are someone who watches TV now, "Black-ish".)

Will Smith gets to use it, but does Carleton? And to go to the goofiest real life example I can think of, the children that Madonna has adopted from Malawi?

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by naraht

My issue here is essentially the "Fresh Prince of Belair" situation (or if you are someone who watches TV now, "Black-ish".)

Will Smith gets to use it, but does Carleton? And to go to the goofiest real life example I can think of, the children that Madonna has adopted from Malawi?

Yes. They can all say it. They're all black.

Just like how my sister-in-law will say, "Going out with my bitches tonight!". Vulgar, sure, but it's an expression of camaraderie and reclaiming a derogatory word. But if I, as a man, ask her "are you going out with your bitches tonight?" she'll be offended, for obvious reasons.

Or if a country boy says, "let's go out tonight, redneck style!". But if a California city guy like me says, "man you're acting like real rednecks tonight!", even in a positive tone, they're going to be offended, for obvious reasons.

It's really not that complicated.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Yes. They can all say it. They're all black.

Just like how my sister-in-law will say, "Going out with my bitches tonight!". Vulgar, sure, but it's an expression of camaraderie and reclaiming a derogatory word. But if I, as a man, ask her "are you going out with your bitches tonight?" she'll be offended, for obvious reasons.

Or if a country boy says, "let's go out tonight, redneck style!". But if a California city guy like me says, "man you're acting like real rednecks tonight!", even in a positive tone, they're going to be offended, for obvious reasons.

It's really not that complicated.

Thank you. It's really not.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Yes. They can all say it. They're all black.

Just like how my sister-in-law will say, "Going out with my bitches tonight!". Vulgar, sure, but it's an expression of camaraderie and reclaiming a derogatory word. But if I, as a man, ask her "are you going out with your bitches tonight?" she'll be offended, for obvious reasons.

Or if a country boy says, "let's go out tonight, redneck style!". But if a California city guy like me says, "man you're acting like real rednecks tonight!", even in a positive tone, they're going to be offended, for obvious reasons.

It's really not that complicated.

I hate when women call each other that as an expression of camaraderie. It makes me cringe and I am offended by it. I don't like the current trend of people using derogatory terms for their own group and saying it's ok because they are addressing their own cultural group. I don't think it's ever ok to use those terms.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I don't like the current trend of people using derogatory terms for their own group and saying it's ok because they are addressing their own cultural group. I don't think it's ever ok to use those terms.

White people: create a racist slang term.

Black people: re-appropriate it positively as a term of endearment.

White people: it's not OK for you to use that word, it's vulgar.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

White people: create a racist slang term.

Black people: re-appropriate it positively as a term of endearment.

White people: it's not OK for you to use that word, it's vulgar.

My point was:
Men: create a misogynistic term
Women: re-appropriate it positively as a term of endearment
This woman: Still says it's not ok to use that word, it's vulgar

This is a trend across all areas of society that I don't like.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by AGDee

My point was:
Men: create a misogynistic term
Women: re-appropriate it positively as a term of endearment
This woman: Still says it's not ok to use that word, it's vulgar

This is a trend across all areas of society that I don't like.

Totally get that aspect of it. And as a woman, you should have a ton of say about how you believe other women should use it, because it's a choice you're making about a negative slur about a part of you.

My understanding and what I was trying to get at with that example there, is that every black person I've ever known feels that it's not for white people to decide whether or not they should use that word positively, negatively, or at all, especially since we created it. And since there are black people all over the spectrum on whether it should be used or not, I'm going to leave it up to them to decide how to use their word and respect the answers they come up with as a community.

All I know as a white man is that I shouldn't be saying it.