Thinking About Disaffiliation

[7Silver17]

Originally Posted by navane

Hi 7Silver17,

Thank you for sharing some extra information. Your explanation of the general situation of what you're facing helps us better understand where you are coming from. I have been a very active alumna member of my NPC organization for 13 years. Prior to changing careers, I worked in higher education and specifically sent some time working in our FSL office. I do have some thoughts to share in all sincerity.


First, you said that your AD felt that some of the things you described "may be" indicative of hazing. Without you explaining the exact activity involved (and you don't have to), it's hard to pin down if this situation truly is hazing or not. Any FSL staff member worth their salt would know right off the bat if something was hazing. However, it sounds as if the activities described fall into a gray-ish area. (?) For example, "We were required to chug bottles of vodka and then circle eat other's fat." That would be obvious hazing. "We were told we would have to be able to recite the 12 founders' names any time someone asks" or "our pledges do a scavenger hunt" would be a more gray area.


According to you, at the time you participated, you had it in mind that you would never stand for hazing; but, you imply that you did participate in activities that you now think "may be" hazing. Sincere question, did it occur to you at the time (as a collegian), that this activity was, or might be, hazing? I'm not criticizing, I'm just trying to understand because it seems like it didn't bother you at the time even though you said you "...would never stand for anything related to hazing"






Is this issue "national" because it is literally printed in the new member education materials put out by headquarters or is it "national" because many chapters do this activity and no one's stopping them?


Here, I have to wonder why any national GLO would outright place or advertise hazing activities in their new member program. Again, is it a gray area activity that may be innocent on paper but implemented incorrectly by individual chapters? (see my examples above).





Respectfully, this doesn't hold water. Every friend starts out as a stranger. It's when we get to know people that we build relationships and they turn into friendships. So, it's probably not the strangers thing that gets you, it's more likely that you simply just don't want to reach out or associate because of your negative feelings towards the GLO. That's perfectly ok to feel that way.





Since you say that the organization's national entity does not believe what it's doing is hazing, then either the organization is horribly and dangerously off-base or the activity really may not be hazing like you think it is.


I dealt with a MCG sorority hazing case - the pledge came into my office sobbing, in clear distress, and outright asked me for help. That situation, based on her narrative, was an obvious case of hazing. There was no hesitation on my part that it "may be indicative of hazing". It WAS hazing and I reported the chapter to the FSL Director immediately. So, as a former FSL professional, I'm really getting stuck on that your AD didn't seem to know if it was hazing or not.


Also, I want to reassure you that your affiliation with your sorority will not ruin your student affairs career like you think it will. In my experience, no one really pays that much attention to it, even in the FSL segment of student affairs. In the FSL office, we were all GLO members. Yes, we knew who belonged to which fraternity and sorority; but, no one tripped on if one sorority was thought to be better than another or if one had made the news or not. If you look at the national news recently, there have been a number of really horrible high-profile embarrassments and tragedies for a few national GLOs. No one in FSL is going to look at you and say, "Oh, you're an XYZ? Isn't XYZ the sorority that <fill in the blank>?" FSL advisers are smart enough to know that one mistake or one bad chapter or one bad programming idea doesn't mean all members are bad. You will not be black-listed from FSL professional events or career opportunities. If anything, FSL practioners would likely be the MOST supportive of you and your GLO.


I think that the "my alumnae sisters are all strangers anyway" and "my national office only does phone calls" and "I'm afraid my Greek Life career could be hurt" are simply your attempts to justify your desire to disaffiliate from your GLO for whatever reason it is you really wanted to disaffiliate. If in your heart you truly believe that the activity is hazing, that the organization is a supporter of hazing, or that you otherwise have a moral or ethical objection to the values of the organization, then I support your decision to disaffiliate. Truly.

To navane,

Thank you so much for your message. To clarify, when I was in undergrad, I DID NOT believe what I was doing was considered hazing. It wasn't until last semester when I went to my FSL office and asked my AD in person if activities XYZ were hazing and she flat out said yes. I then communicated to her that the activities are written on a national level, as in EVERYONE in EVERY chapter is expected to conduct basically the same activities in the same way. I asked a fellow sister if we could change things on a chapter level, but person X responded to me saying that our chapter would not be recognized if we did our own thing. The people are different in every chapter, but everything in our manual/book is meant for every chapter to perform such activities. It is also meant to be "read as if an administrator is reading it," as similarly quoted by another fellow sister who explained it to me. To me, hearing that sounded suspicious, which made me want to ask more questions.

So to also double clarify, I did not think what I was doing was hazing before I asked my AD a few questions last semester, which at the time, I was getting ready to go into the field of FSL. And, I believed that I needed to have my personal thoughts/feelings about the activities discussed as I need to know what is truly hazing or not as a newly rising professional.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by 7Silver17

To navane,

Thank you so much for your message. To clarify, when I was in undergrad, I DID NOT believe what I was doing was considered hazing. It wasn't until last semester when I went to my FSL office and asked my AD in person if activities XYZ were hazing and she flat out said yes. I then communicated to her that the activities are written on a national level, as in EVERYONE in EVERY chapter is expected to conduct basically the same activities in the same way. I asked a fellow sister if we could change things on a chapter level, but person X responded to me saying that our chapter would not be recognized if we did our own thing. The people are different in every chapter, but everything in our manual/book is meant for every chapter to perform such activities. It is also meant to be "read as if an administrator is reading it," as similarly quoted by another fellow sister who explained it to me. To me, hearing that sounded suspicious, which made me want to ask more questions.

So to also double clarify, I did not think what I was doing was hazing before I asked my AD a few questions last semester, which at the time, I was getting ready to go into the field of FSL. And, I believed that I needed to have my personal thoughts/feelings about the activities discussed as I need to know what is truly hazing or not as a newly rising professional.

Have you read the NPC Manual of Information (aka The Green Book) for that definition of hazing? If you are going to work in FSL you need to be very conversant with that book. I know that some other Councils don't consider some of the activities listed as hazing. One of them is scavenger hunts. You hardly ever see paddles any more with NPC groups just because of the "idea" of it relating to hazing. So perhaps what you need to do is to investigate what the other Councils say about hazing- NPC,IFC, NPHC, etc - and then make a determination. Also, if you know an attorney in your state, asking about the legal definition in your state might be helpful as well.