FISHER v. UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN ET AL.

[carnation]

Well, not only that but let's say you have 30% of some high school in say, Plano, with a deserved GPA of over a 4.0. All could easily excel at Texas or A&M. Then you have some tiny high school out in the sticks somewhere whose--maybe--top 2 kids can do it but the rest will flame out spectacularly in their first semester (not that the Plano kids won't but it won't be due to academic unpreparedness, most likely). I have taught at both kinds of high schools and can picture it so easily.

Texas is shooting itself in the foot two ways. First, with the above scenario. Second, because a lot of these kids want a 4-year big U experience so Texas is losing these kids to other big Southern schools and sometimes they don't return to Texas. I have been openmouthed at the numbers of Texas women on the new member lists at Arkansas, OSU, OU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Auburn, and Bama. Also, a lot of those schools offer fabulous scholarships to the scorned Texans. After all--a lot of the scorned Texans only have a 3.95!

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by carnation

Well, not only that but let's say you have 30% of some high school in say, Plano, with a deserved GPA of over a 4.0. All could easily excel at Texas or A&M. Then you have some tiny high school out in the sticks somewhere whose--maybe--top 2 kids can do it but the rest will flame out spectacularly in their first semester (not that the Plano kids won't but it won't be due to academic unpreparedness, most likely). I have taught at both kinds of high schools and can picture it so easily.

This would happen anyway, without the top 10% rule. I saw this happening in my own freshman class in 1987.

The top 10% rule is a way to level the playing field since race could no longer be considered a strong admissions factor. And, just because you can get into any school for any reason, that does not mean you will graduate in four years.

Texas is shooting itself in the foot two ways. First, with the above scenario. Second, because a lot of these kids want a 4-year big U experience so Texas is losing these kids to other big Southern schools and sometimes they don't return to Texas. I have been openmouthed at the numbers of Texas women on the new member lists at Arkansas, OSU, OU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Auburn, and Bama. Also, a lot of those schools offer fabulous scholarships to the scorned Texans. After all--a lot of the scorned Texans only have a 3.95!

I don't think Texas is shooting itself in the foot for the reason I stated above. If there is anything shooting Texas in the foot, it is the cost of living in Austin which has skyrocketed over the last 10 - 15 years.

And for the NPC orgs at Texas, that is a very small issue. Considering the thousands of students who go there, only a few are interested in joining NPC orgs at Texas. Since we all know it is real hard to get into a NPC sorority at Texas, especially the coveted Big 6, then that is probably the reason so many Texas girls go to other big southern schools.

But, I get it. Go to Texas, join a Big 6 chapter, marry well, preferably a man from a well established native Texas family, and become the hottest Dallas socialite.

[carnation]

I'm not sure these girls would have necessarily gone Greek at Texas. They might have joined one of the coveted spirit organizations, for instance. And Austin has a lot to do!

The ones I've talked to have left the state for the big U experience. At a lot of these OOS schools, going Greek is a big deal because they're located in small towns waayy away from tons to do. CoughcoughStarkvilleMS, although I hear it's gotten better.

So the girls who wanted to become Dallas socialites may end up in Birmingham, Baton Rouge, or Atlanta but hey, we all make choices and pray for the best.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by carnation

I'm not sure these girls would have necessarily gone Greek at Texas. They might have joined one of the coveted spirit organizations, for instance.

True

And Austin has a lot to do!

Austin has always had a lot to do. It's just now, for some reason, Austin has become *the* place to live in Texas. UT System can't control the cost of living in Austin.

The ones I've talked to have left the state for the big U experience. At a lot of these OOS schools, going Greek is a big deal because they're located in small towns waayy away from tons to do. CoughcoughStarkvilleMS, although I hear it's gotten better.

So the girls who wanted to become Dallas socialites may end up in Birmingham, Baton Rouge, or Atlanta but hey, we all make choices and pray for the best.

This is all well and good, but it really has nothing to do with the Fisher case, unless she wanted to join a NPC or spirit org at Texas.

[carnation]

Some did but decided to make lemonade from their lemons.

I'm a born-and-bred Texan but moved out to the Southeast meany moons ago. Of course, I'm thrilled about the influx of Texans and so are the NPC chapters! The only people I've known who are upset about it: some girls and moms who've been bemoaning how high the influx of Texans with killer grades and SATs has raised the bar for not only PNMs but for girls who are trying out for coveted honor society spots and say, drill team positions.

[Ag_Sis]

Originally Posted by carnation

So the girls who wanted to become Dallas socialites may end up in Birmingham, Baton Rouge, or Atlanta but hey, we all make choices and pray for the best.

I actually think that the Texas girls who wanted to become socialites stay in-state and attend the private schools like TCU, SMU, Baylor, etc. IME I've found the girls who go OOS to big SEC schools to be more open to broadening their horizons, though I do know of a few who pledged a sorority in big SEC school only to try and transfer back to UT-Austin.

About the Abigail Fisher thing - the CAP program exists because UT-Austin officials are well aware that many auto-admits will crash and burn their Freshman year. You spend a year at another college in the UT system (excluding UT-Dallas I believe) and as long as your GPA is above a 2.5 or 3.0, you are automatically admitted into UT-Austin.

IMO, everything sort of balances out in the end. My older brother has friends who didn't have the "grades" to get into UT-Austin and ended up going to TCU, Tulane, Austin College, OU, etc., made good grades, and are currently attending UT Law and Baylor Medical School.

UT-Austin's actually moved away from the top 10% rule and only auto-admits the top 8%, leaving more room for "qualified" applicants. A&M uses the top 10% rule as well, but it has an additional auto-admit in which if you are top 25% and have at least an SAT of 1300 or ACT of 30, it's automatic acceptance.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

This would happen anyway, without the top 10% rule. I saw this happening in my own freshman class in 1987.

The top 10% rule is a way to level the playing field since race could no longer be considered a strong admissions factor. And, just because you can get into any school for any reason, that does not mean you will graduate in four years.



I don't think Texas is shooting itself in the foot for the reason I stated above. If there is anything shooting Texas in the foot, it is the cost of living in Austin which has skyrocketed over the last 10 - 15 years.

And for the NPC orgs at Texas, that is a very small issue. Considering the thousands of students who go there, only a few are interested in joining NPC orgs at Texas. Since we all know it is real hard to get into a NPC sorority at Texas, especially the coveted Big 6, then that is probably the reason so many Texas girls go to other big southern schools.

But, I get it. Go to Texas, join a Big 6 chapter, marry well, preferably a man from a well established native Texas family, and become the hottest Dallas socialite.

I agree - Austin is getting too expensive which will drive some of its current residents out, but everyday I see more and more out of state license plates so they will just be replaced (sadly IMO). My home value has gone up a substantial amount (well for me) which is great but the taxes are also going up and this will force me to sell my house in a couple of years.

And to the comment above about her poor SAT score-I performed very poorly on the SAT but I was a very good student. I feel the SAT has no prediction on how a student will do in college. I went to college with merit scholarship recipients that had very high SAT scores and they barely made it through undergrad. Not that they were not smart, quite the opposite, but they did not know how to study. I finished my undergrad requirements in three years and was accepted to vet. school early. I feel the same about the ACT for grad school. Again, I did not have a great GRE score but my undergrad grades were very good. During my vet school interview the poor score was mentioned and I had to explain that I was not very good with that type of testing. I did very well in vet school despite the poor GRE score.