Meanwhile at UCLA, Sig Ep and Alpha Phi do Kanye & Kardashians

[sigmadiva]

I agree, Kanye and Kim K., as individuals, are douchy to the max.


It is the case that historically NPC / NIC / IFC have a habit of these "dress-up" theme parties in the spirit of mocking those they are trying to imitate. Unfortunately, NPC / NIC / IFC groups often target minority groups. They are a victim of their own past behaviors.

[DubaiSis]

There is no person/couple in America right now who is as worthy of ridicule, except for the Republican presidential candidates. I would refrain from continuing to bang the drum about what "white people always do" (which is more or less what you are saying). These are late teenagers who at best made a minor mistake and at worst did absolutely nothing wrong. If we save the righteous indignation for when a person race or culture have actually been wronged then the indignation might actually have some teeth.
This is not an "I am not a costume" situation.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I would refrain from continuing to bang the drum about what "white people always do" (which is more or less what you are saying). These are late teenagers who at best made a minor mistake and at worst did absolutely nothing wrong. If we save the righteous indignation for when a person race or culture have actually been wronged then the indignation might actually have some teeth.

Exactly. Also, there are NPHC fraternities in the NIC, and people of color in NPC/NIC fraternities. Generalizations do not help any of us.

Look, we all know of instances when fraternity or sorority members do dumb, insensitive, or downright offensive theme parties. THIS WAS NOT ONE OF THEM. Now we have misguided college students protesting over what boils down to nothing. It makes it possible that potentially legitimate concerns in the future are ignored. THEY ARE NOT DOING THEMSELVES ANY FAVORS.

Case in point:

"Said Hanan Worku, another UCLA student, on Facebook, “Yes that’s right, a frat decided it would be okay to have their members repeat a part of history that demoralized, mocked and dehumanized African Americans/ And celebrate while doing it. They showed up with their chains and braids with stuffed butts for God knows what reason. True Bruin values amiright????!!!!! Not to mention all of this happened last night which happened to be a part of Black Bruin Welcome Week! Coincidence right??????”

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...t-ucla/410638/

So, when did the Gold Rush dehumanize African-Americans?

[LAblondeGPhi]

So, as a white woman, I feel a little uncomfortable in these situations taking the position I'm about to take. I hate seeing discussions of race break down into white people taking one side and blacks taking the other, and it seems to happen more often than not.

But - I do want to recognize the limitations of my own perspective, so I'm coming at this with genuine curiosity and open-mindedness. Here we go:

I think there is a genuine difference between making fun of an individual and making fun of a group of people based on stereotypes. I also think there's a difference between making fun of an individual for what they've actually done, versus making fun of someone by placing a stereotype on them. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, it sounds like many of the costumes were making fun of an individual (or family), based on their own and actual behavior.

-The gold diggers: Removing the question of blackface, this costume looks to be a pun on the actual name of the Kanye West song. Halloween shops have been selling these kinds of "gold digger" costumers for years. If anything, I would often associate the stereotype of gold digger with a young pretty woman and an old white dude. I have a hard time seeing something offensive here. Did I miss that?

-The big butts: Okay, this one is a little more provocative, but it seems like it's a direct dig at the Kardashians much more than anything else. Those girls are obsessed with their backsides, and I swear, have perfected some kind of fitness regime to enhance them. Assuming that this is the case, is the action still culturally insensitive, or just mean-spirited toward the Kardashians?

-Chains, clothing, etc: Here's where I get iffy. The theme was based on Kanye West. If you go to an event dressed up in an outfit that he's actually worn, or something as similar as you can muster, is that offensive? At what point does the outfit cross the line?

I'm sure there were other costume variations at the party, so I'm sure that there were plenty more offensive than those listed here. But the thing is, I've seen plenty of "Tennis Pros/Golf Pros/CEOs and Something Hos" parties, or "White Trash whatever", or even "Famous Couples", and all of those are going to make fun of some group.

So is the real issue that the theme was "Kanye Western" and not "Taylor Swifty"?

[DTD Alum]

I'll even help you out. This is the black face / gold digger photo in question.

[Gdimom1]

It was so clearly NOT. Blackface. Clearly dirt. Because miners are dirty. And apparently the one picture of a girl whose skin is all darkened who dressed like Kanye was you know someone with dark skin.

The people objecting made a mistake. They should admit this apologize and move on.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

http://dailybruin.com/2015/10/07/stu...-themed-party/

"Sig Ep and Alpha Phi draw criticism after ‘Kanye Western’ themed raid
BY JILLIAN FRANKEL
Posted: October 7, 2015 5:10 pm

This post and headline were updated on Oct. 7 at 8:22 p.m.

Several UCLA student groups are asking the university to respond after the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity and Alpha Phi sorority held a “Kanye Western” themed raid Tuesday night, for which guests dressed in baggy clothes, plumped lips and padded bottoms, or as “Kardashians.”

Kelsee Thomas, a third-year fine arts student and member of the Afrikan Student Union, said other ASU members said they saw partygoers with those costumes. Photos from the raid also show attendees with their foreheads covered in charcoal.

The presidents of the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity and the Alpha Phi sorority did not respond to several calls for comment. Student leaders of the Afrikan Student Union have asked the group’s general members not to comment until they meet as a group and release a collective statement Wednesday evening."

*click link to read the rest*

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

I know exactly what a gold digger is in Kanye's context. I'm not 80. That's not what the girls dressed up as. The girls dressed up as "gold diggers" literally as a play on the song title...they dressed up in flannel shirts, denim, and "gold pans" as if they were panning for gold in the 1850s. The "skin darkening" in question was a charcoal smudge on each cheek as if they were dirty from panning for gold, not blackface.

For pete's sake, look at the damn photos if you're going to get righteous about what they are dressed as. You clearly haven't.



Oh man. You really haven't even seen the photos, have you? You're right if they were dressing up as women that were seeking a rich man for money. I'd be with you 110% and I even said so earlier in this thread. That's not the gold digger they actually dressed up as. They dressed up as the country western one.

This rush to criticize without even understanding what happened is exactly what we are arguing is absurd about this outrage, NOT that GLOs often do throw parties that are offensive.

So, why have a Kanye themed party and dress up as actual old-time gold diggers with charcoal smeared all over the face? The context of Kanye's gold digger and actual gold diggers are two different things.

Maybe it was just bad party planning.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So, why have a Kanye themed party and dress up as actual old-time gold diggers with charcoal smeared all over the face? The context of Kanye's gold digger and actual gold diggers are two different things.

Maybe it was just bad party planning.

Because they were making a (relatively clever) joke on a Kanye song title. Also, the party theme was "Kanye West-ern"...so, Kanye West meets the Wild Wild West. Hence the other country western photos that didn't make the news. It was a perfect blend of a Kanye West song title with a western theme that people took wildly out of context. Once the news started spreading, nobody took the time to think critically about any of this, and now there are hundreds of people whose names are smeared with ABSOLUTELY. NO. PROOF. THAT. ANY. BLACKFACE. EVER. OCCURRED. In fact, by this point it is abundantly clear that none actually happened, and yet the protests still go on.

Do you not see how this is grossly unfair?

ETA: It's not any different than dressing up as a "flash light" to interpret "Flashing lights". Or wearing a devil headdress and a blue dress to be "devil in a blue dress".

[ChioLu]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

ETA: It's not any different than dressing up as a "flash light" to interpret "Flashing lights". Or wearing a devil headdress and a blue dress to be "devil in a blue dress".

That was a Halloween costume 1 year for me -- in a navy blue (AXiD) Betsy Johnson dress with red horns and a tail.
I probably offended someone in Hell.

[sigmadiva]

So, in other words, they were really stretching it and the connection failed.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So, in other words, they were really stretching it and the connection failed.

So they deserve to be labeled as women who dressed up in blackface for life? Remember, the protests were not just about "an offensive party theme", but the allegations were that these sorority women dressed up as African-American women. Which absolutely never happened and honestly, anybody who thought about it for more than 5 seconds after seeing that photo would have come to the same conclusion. Their names are public in at least one case, and will follow them for life. It is reprehensibly irresponsible and unfair.

I repeat: I am not arguing that incredibly offensive themes, including real blackface, have happened many times associated with GLOs. This was nowhere near one of them. Somebody made a quick mistake about a costume, took no time to actually research what it was, and dragged a bunch of innocent people through the mud.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

So they deserve to be labeled as women who dressed up in blackface for life? Remember, the protests were not just about "an offensive party theme", but the allegations were that these sorority women dressed up as African-American women. Which absolutely never happened and honestly, anybody who thought about it for more than 5 seconds after seeing that photo would have come to the same conclusion. Their names are public in at least one case, and will follow them for life. It is reprehensibly irresponsible and unfair.

I repeat: I am not arguing that incredibly offensive themes, including real blackface, have happened many times associated with GLOs. This was nowhere near one of them. Somebody made a quick mistake about a costume, took no time to actually research what it was, and dragged a bunch of innocent people through the mud.

No, they don't deserve to labeled as such, but when you (the general public) put yourself out there on the internet, you are leaving people to make their own interpretations.

While we here at GC can have an academic discussion about what is truly blackface and what isn't, again, the general public is not going to do the same.

Historically white GLO's have had these blackface / ethnic costumed theme parties in the past. The fact that this NPC chapter had charcoal smeared on their faces and called the part 'Kanye Western' was enough to make people concerned based on past incidents of NPC / IFC / NIC orgs.

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

No, they don't deserve to labeled as such, but when you (the general public) put yourself out there on the internet, you are leaving people to make their own interpretations.

While we here at GC can have an academic discussion about what is truly blackface and what isn't, again, the general public is not going to do the same.

Historically white GLO's have had these blackface / ethnic costumed theme parties in the past. The fact that this NPC chapter had charcoal smeared on their faces and called the part 'Kanye Western' was enough to make people concerned based on past incidents of NPC / IFC / NIC orgs.

I don't get why you keep arguing this when what your saying is flat out wrong.

If you look at girls dressed up as miners with pans of gold in their hands and dirty faces and all you see is black face. That's your own bias. That's you looking for the race problem. It's you hearing "white GLO and blackface" and automatically assuming the worst.

There's nothing wrong with saying, Hey I jumped to conclusions and thankfully this isn't what I thought it was. But nope, you're going to keep digging your heels in.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

No, they don't deserve to labeled as such, but when you (the general public) put yourself out there on the internet, you are leaving people to make their own interpretations.

And in this case, the people not only made their own interpretations but then staged a huge public protest and smeared people publicly and in a very high profile based on that interpretation, and in a way that will undoubtedly unfairly impact them for the rest of their careers, and all this based on an "interpretation" which if you spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it critically, is completely erroneous and impossible to defend.

That is completely unacceptable. Completely, utterly, reprehensibly unacceptable. The protestors involved were so carried away by being victims of an act that never actually occurred AND, like I said, required mere seconds of critical thinking to realize never occurred, and they never stopped to realize they were creating innocent victims of their own.

It's absolutely disgusting. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened here.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

And in this case, the people not only made their own interpretations but then staged a huge public protest and smeared people publicly and in a very high profile based on that interpretation, and in a way that will undoubtedly unfairly impact them for the rest of their careers, and all this based on an "interpretation" which if you spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it critically, is completely erroneous and impossible to defend.

That is completely unacceptable. Completely, utterly, reprehensibly unacceptable. The protestors involved were so carried away by being victims of an act that never actually occurred AND, like I said, required mere seconds of critical thinking to realize never occurred, and they never stopped to realize they were creating innocent victims of their own.

It's absolutely disgusting. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened here.

Welcome to the reality of every unjustly incarcerated (who are mostly people of color) people.

Permanent life altering decisions based on rash interpretations and preconceived notions.