University fo Okahoma-Sigma Alpha Epsilon-Racial Chant

[33girl]

Wow, that's insane. That would be like the football stadium at Lehigh getting vandalized after the Penn State/Sandusky scandal.

Eta: this is re sailboatgirl's post.

[BG1997]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Interesting commentary.... her ideas made me think.

A Teachable Moment

Very Teachable Moment thank you for sharing this.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by MU2Driver

I understand that a literal reading of the Wikipedia conflict of interest policy could be interpreted that way, but it also says "subject-matter experts are welcome to contribute to articles in their areas of expertise, while being careful to make sure that their external relationships in that field do not interfere with their primary role on Wikipedia."

Using this example, who else other than a brother of SAE would have both the subject matter expertise and also the time and inclination to edit the SAE page? It's not a perfect system, which is why most people take Wikipedia with a grain of salt. The options in most cases would seem to be either uninformed editors or editors with a bias against the subject of the article.

"Subject matter expertise" is relatively broad. If there is an article on a new treatment for acne, a dermatologist or even a general MD would be viewed as having subject matter expertise. An Alpha Tau Omega brother would have all of the subject matter expertise to edit the article on SAE or vice versa. Many people are interested in improving articles on topics that they will have to research. For example, if a page for an honor society is marked as a stub and I happen to run into it, I'll do the research necessary to try to "destub it". I'm not a Phi Beta Kappa member, but I'm currently working on a chapter directory including installation dates.

Articles should be referenced, finding and putting the information from the pages puts someone above the level of "uninformed". And someone who is vocally opposed to the subject of the article is also viewed as having a conflict of interest. (So it would be equally inappropriate for the PR company for Exxon Mobil and for Greenpeace to write the article about the Exxon Valdez spill)

[Jill1228]

OU's Sigma Alpha Epsilon to sue university

http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-s-sig....html?mode=jqm

Yeah, good luck with that! NOT!

[Kevin]

Stephen Jones is an outstanding trial lawyer. One of the best. He was not so successful defending Timothy McVeigh, but he does good work. He would not be getting involved if the claims were frivolous.

[banditone]

I don't think they can just boot an organization off without trial. Especially one that old and with that much backing. The university will have to pay. I'm sure they are more than willing to do so to put this in the rear view mirror.

Also, I assume the SAE alumni org didn't own the house? That's the only thing I can assume since Boren is talking about demo or different use for that house and land.

[AZTheta]

Update, because Tri Delta was referenced by another poster earlier in the thread. If you don't wish to click on the link, the bottom line is that no Tri Deltas were identified as being on the bus.

Kappa Alpha Theta Grand Council President also released a blog post/statement regarding OU. I found it interesting in light of the recent thread here on QU. There was no comment made by the Fraternity re: that situation to the best of my knowledge. I'm not saying that there should have been. I'm simply presenting published information. I can't place this link in that thread, as it was closed.

[AZTheta]

Double posting: yes, the University can do that, banditone. There's no "trial" involved. Withdrawing recognition = gone, gone, gone. I speak from experience. You are assuming that SAE will prevail, which IMO is not a slam dunk. When the lawyers get involved, it goes to a whole other level, and it will be up to the court(s) to decide the outcome. We're in a new game now.

Pretty obvious that SAE didn't own that property, which surprises me, if they have been there on campus for decades. However, that may be an OU policy - that the University owns all the land/buildings and leases to the fraternities/sororities. I don't know. Kevin?

[thetalady]

Without a charter, a victory against OU would seem to be moot.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Pretty obvious that SAE didn't own that property, which surprises me, if they have been there on campus for decades. However, that may be an OU policy - that the University owns all the land/buildings and leases to the fraternities/sororities. I don't know. Kevin?

Yes, I read in a previous article that the University owns the houses & leases to the organizations.

[AZTheta]

^^^thanks.

Given that MU2Driver said he learned that song/chant in the 80s, and Parker Rice stated that the song was taught to him, I don't think it's much of a reach for the average person to see the members as racists and bigots. That's the general concensus among my non-Greek friends and acquaintances. We have all been tarred with that brush; guilt by association, I believe is the term that's commonly used.

[amIblue?]

I guess it's my lack of legal understanding, but I do not understand why this case is any different than any other time a fraternity or sorority has been asked to leave another college campus. Aren't we there at most campuses at the behest and approval of the school? I know there are a few campi at which GLOs operate on an off-campus basis (the Ivies, Georgetown, etc.). I guess I just don't get it.

[SWTXBelle]

I think an issue may be that there was no due process (if you think about, most often what seems to happen is a group is put on probation, and then they break it, and THEN they are kicked off campus) for the removal of recognition for the chapter. I do not know how that translates into a legal case.

[AZTheta]

I'm not sure, SWTXBelle. I suppose that it has to do with the terms of the lease agreement that OU has with the fraternity? And speaking from experience, there are certain circumstances in which loss of recognition is immediate. Again, I'm speculating. This is going to be really interesting to watch. The fallout from this is also going to be huge.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Again, I'm speculating.

Which really is all anyone is doing without knowing what the actual claims against OU will be.