Phi Kappa Psi at U of Virginia Voluntarily Suspends Activities

[Low D Flat]

And there are women and men who are silent because being vocal or making gestures of disapproval could result in a much more painful experience.

Sure, but the Swarthmore victim didn't make any sort of claim to that effect. I'm taking her version of events at face value. She didn't say that she was scared to say anything, or even that she gave up because she was certain that nothing would deter him. She said she was too tired to speak a word to make her wishes clear, which doesn't make any sense.

But people who are fearful of this ruining their consensual silent orgasm can sign a contract with their partner.

That wouldn't have any effect in criminal court. You can't commit by contract to have sex with someone. You always have a right to withdraw consent (which is as it should be, but means that there's no way to contract around this problem).

I think false or unreasonable accusations are a much, much smaller problem than rape. I just don't think that we can address the rape problem by applying the term to encounters like this. If anything, cases like the Swarthmore case may create backlash that makes it more difficult to address the real issue.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

Sure, but the Swarthmore victim didn't make any sort of claim to that effect. I'm taking her version of events at face value. She didn't say that she was scared to say anything, or even that she gave up because she was certain that nothing would deter him. She said she was too tired to speak a word to make her wishes clear, which doesn't make any sense.



That wouldn't have any effect in criminal court. You can't commit by contract to have sex with someone. You always have a right to withdraw consent (which is as it should be, but means that there's no way to contract around this problem).

I think false or unreasonable accusations are a much, much smaller problem than rape. I just don't think that we can address the rape problem by applying the term to encounters like this. If anything, cases like the Swarthmore case may create backlash that makes it more difficult to address the real issue.

One issue, as I see it, is that false accusations are a much smaller problem, but they clearly aren't a zero problem. They do exist and any given complaint has the potential to be false. Without fair and thorough fact finding and due process for the accused, we can't assume an individual accusation is true simply because most are. The foundation of due process is the presumption of innocence for the accused. Does this imply that the accuser is lying?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

Sure, but the Swarthmore victim didn't make any sort of claim to that effect.

The Swarthmore accuser also didn't say that when her boyfriend pulls her panties down, and she just watches silently, that means "yes, keep going."

Aren't we all typing about larger dynamics that aren't limited to Swarthmore?

Originally Posted by Low C Flat

That wouldn't have any effect in criminal court.

That was my sarcastic way of telling silent consenters to get over it.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

She said she was too tired to speak a word to make her wishes clear, which doesn't make any sense.

. Sadly, it makes sense in the context of the resigned helpless victimology of the new feminism. She needs some assertiveness training.