Ferguson, MO

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And any doubt that this is max is removed.

You had doubts?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

You had doubts?

Not really, though the first few posts didn't quite have his usual je ne sais quoi.

[KDCat]

Dorian Johnson's testimony to the grand jury. He was the guy with Mike Brown at the store.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/248126858/...the-Grand-Jury

I want to cry now.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Dorian Johnson's testimony to the grand jury. He was the guy with Mike Brown at the store.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/248126858/...the-Grand-Jury

I want to cry now.

Why do you want to cry?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Why do you want to cry?

So the Grand Jury apparently believed that lying liars lie.

When I read the testimony, it came off as very coached.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So the Grand Jury apparently believed that lying liars lie.

When I read the testimony, it came off as very coached.

I didn't read it because that site wanted me dowload some software in order to read it plus it was 182 pages.

But, please refresh my memory. Wasn't his friend the one that initially said that Wilson shot Brown in the back even though the three separate autopsys have disproved Brown ever getting shot in the back while running away?

[ZetaPhi708.20]

Make it Plain with Mark Thompson on SiriusXM is reporting that Boston is shut down. Reports on Twitter stated that NY city traffic is at a standstill.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So the Grand Jury apparently believed that lying liars lie.

When I read the testimony, it came off as very coached.

(This is super-long, so please excuse me. I am venting.)

When I read Darren Wilson's testimony, it just seems weird to me.

When I read this guy, I believe him. I do think he was prepared. His attorney is Freeman Bosley, who is very active in the AA community in St. Louis and a politician, as well as an attorney. I still believe him. Witness prep is typical, not unusual, if you practice litigation. My clients are always prepped before any testimony under oath.

Here's why I believe him:
He comes off as a typical guy that you might find in that neighborhood. I believe that he had just moved to a better neighborhood from some crappy neighborhood. (Ferguson isn't the hood. It's a working class neighborhood. I went to college with kids from Ferguson. It's not far from where I grew up.) Lots of AA people move from East. St. Louis and North St. Louis to the working class suburbs like Ferguson. There is less crime and better schools.

I know from experience and from living here most of my life that St. Louis cops can be aggressive assholes. They also lie on the stand. It's practically part of their job description. We had a terrible experience in my home town with some drunk St. Louis cops harassing bar patrons and then pulling a gun on them. It ended up with one of our cops shooting one of the St. Louis cops dead. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/i...9bb30f31a.html

I also know that Mike Brown's autopsy said he was positive for marijuana. It's possible and even likely that he was high when he went to the store and stole those cigars. I knew guys in college who did similar things under the influence (1 stole a bottle of vodka after the clerk said he couldn't sell alcohol after 1 am. 1 stole an ice scraper from a gas station. 1 stole a movie poster from the front of a theater. They were idiots, but they didn't end up dead.)

So what happened? I think that Mike Brown was high and acting like an idiot. (Johnson testified that Mike Brown didn't usually act like this.) The cop reacts overly aggressively. He is cowboying the situation. Mike Brown struggles and runs away. The cop kills him because he is pissed off.

I never fully bought the story about Brown charging the cop. Who runs and then turns on a cop? Suspects run or suspects fight. They don't typically run and then turn around and fight. Who turns on a cop that is firing a gun at him under any circumstance? Nobody does that. It's a weird story.

I do believe that Brown might try to run away and then stop and act confused after getting shot. I do believe that a guy who was shot and confused could turn around and face the cop in his confusion. I do believe that a confused person who was just shot might say " I don't have a gun."

I also never bought the story about Darren Wilson being terrified of Mike Brown. They are almost the same height. Wilson has a badge and a gun. He's been a cop for some time. He is trained.

After reading Johnson's testimony and Wilson's testimony, I think Johnson's story is more likely to be true. Wilson executed that kid for struggling and running away.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by KDCat

(This is super-long, so please excuse me. I am venting.)

When I read Darren Wilson's testimony, it just seems weird to me.

When I read this guy, I believe him. I do think he was prepared. His attorney is Freeman Bosley, who is very active in the AA community in St. Louis and a politician, as well as an attorney. I still believe him. Witness prep is typical, not unusual, if you practice litigation. My clients are always prepped before any testimony under oath.

Here's why I believe him:
He comes off as a typical guy that you might find in that neighborhood. I believe that he had just moved to a better neighborhood from some crappy neighborhood. (Ferguson isn't the hood. It's a working class neighborhood. I went to college with kids from Ferguson. It's not far from where I grew up.) Lots of AA people move from East. St. Louis and North St. Louis to the working class suburbs like Ferguson. There is less crime and better schools.

I know from experience and from living here most of my life that St. Louis cops can be aggressive assholes. They also lie on the stand. It's practically part of their job description. We had a terrible experience in my home town with some drunk St. Louis cops harassing bar patrons and then pulling a gun on them. It ended up with one of our cops shooting one of the St. Louis cops dead. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/i...9bb30f31a.html

I also know that Mike Brown's autopsy said he was positive for marijuana. It's possible and even likely that he was high when he went to the store and stole those cigars. I knew guys in college who did similar things under the influence (1 stole a bottle of vodka after the clerk said he couldn't sell alcohol after 1 am. 1 stole an ice scraper from a gas station. 1 stole a movie poster from the front of a theater. They were idiots, but they didn't end up dead.)

So what happened? I think that Mike Brown was high and acting like an idiot. (Johnson testified that Mike Brown didn't usually act like this.) The cop reacts overly aggressively. He is cowboying the situation. Mike Brown struggles and runs away. The cop kills him because he is pissed off.

I never fully bought the story about Brown charging the cop. Who runs and then turns on a cop? Suspects run or suspects fight. They don't typically run and then turn around and fight. Who turns on a cop that is firing a gun at him under any circumstance? Nobody does that. It's a weird story.

I do believe that Brown might try to run away and then stop and act confused after getting shot. I do believe that a guy who was shot and confused could turn around and face the cop in his confusion. I do believe that a confused person who was just shot might say " I don't have a gun."

I also never bought the story about Darren Wilson being terrified of Mike Brown. They are almost the same height. Wilson has a badge and a gun. He's been a cop for some time. He is trained.

After reading Johnson's testimony and Wilson's testimony, I think Johnson's story is more likely to be true. Wilson executed that kid for struggling and running away.

Is it wise to come to a conclusion based off of one (out of many) testimony when this case was marred with so many conflicting accounts? Yes, his may have been different but there were other testimonies that corroborated Officer Wilsons account.

We can all sit here and give our opinions based off of emotions and biases on whether he was guilty or innocent but unless you are privy to all 70 hours of testimonies and physical evidence shown to the Grand Jury than you really can't make an accurate judgment.

[ASTalumna06]

AGDee, I should have elaborated: it's difficult to determine what happened and who is telling the truth in rgard to what occurred leading up to the point where there was physical evidence (i.e. who said what and when, and what caused the situation to escalate to the point of physical violence).

Originally Posted by KDCat

I also know that Mike Brown's autopsy said he was positive for marijuana. It's possible and even likely that he was high when he went to the store and stole those cigars. I knew guys in college who did similar things under the influence (1 stole a bottle of vodka after the clerk said he couldn't sell alcohol after 1 am. 1 stole an ice scraper from a gas station. 1 stole a movie poster from the front of a theater. They were idiots, but they didn't end up dead.)

So what happened? I think that Mike Brown was high and acting like an idiot. (Johnson testified that Mike Brown didn't usually act like this.) The cop reacts overly aggressively. He is cowboying the situation. Mike Brown struggles and runs away. The cop kills him because he is pissed off.

I never fuly bought the story about Brown charging the cop. Who runs and then turns on a cop? Suspects run or suspects fight. They don't typically run and then turn around and fight. Who turns on a cop that is firing a gun at him under any circumstance? Nobody does that. It's a weird story.

Maybe you already answered your own question?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Dorian Johnson's testimony to the grand jury. He was the guy with Mike Brown at the store.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/248126858/...the-Grand-Jury

Darren Wilson speaks about the events of that day:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-p...ry?id=27186946

It's really difficult for me to take one side over another in this case. Their stories completely contradict each other.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by StealthMode

My computer froze and my entire post got deleted.

TL;DR--What makes you feel #4? I'm incredibly surprised to see that comment because every single person I've encountered and comment I've read indicates people feel Wilson should have used a non-lethal way to stop Brown so I can't imagine where that comes from. Care to elaborate?

This is where the problem is, because people assume that in a high adrenalin situation where you've just been attacked and the person who attacked you tried to take your gun and is now charging toward you, you're going to stop and think "I'm going to shoot him in the knee". I think survival instinct causes anybody to just shoot and stop that person in any way possible. Shooting a moving target is also not going to result in shooting them in one specific body part. Brown was almost twice the weight of Wilson and significantly taller. There's no way Wilson would win a physical fight. Once Wilson was unconscious, Brown would have his gun and would then be armed.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Darren Wilson speaks about the events of that day:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-p...ry?id=27186946

It's really difficult for me to take one side over another in this case. Their stories completely contradict each other.

The eye witness accounts of most incidents contradict each other and the statements of the suspect and police officer in any arrest are going to typically contradict each other. That's why you have to focus on physical evidence. The physical evidence showed pretty clearly that Brown tried to grab Wilson's gun in the car and Wilson shot him in the hand. Brown ran and then turned around and started moving back toward Wilson (blood trails show that). Brown was shot in the front, discrediting accounts that he was walking away. The physical evidence is pretty clear and, from what I've read, there was previous precedent from other court cases.

I don't dispute that there is racism resulting in unfair treatment of suspects by police. I'm not convinced this particular incident is the best example to use to demonstrate it.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by AGDee

This is where the problem is, because people assume that in a high adrenalin situation where you've just been attacked and the person who attacked you tried to take your gun and is now charging toward you, you're going to stop and think "I'm going to shoot him in the knee". I think survival instinct causes anybody to just shoot and stop that person in any way possible. Shooting a moving target is also not going to result in shooting them in one specific body part. Brown was almost twice the weight of Wilson and significantly taller. There's no way Wilson would win a physical fight. Once Wilson was unconscious, Brown would have his gun and would then be armed.

And this is where I have a problem. From what I've read and the legal analysis of those I've seen, Wilson was hardly challenged in his GJ testimony. Just seemed like he was allowed to present his version pretty much without challenge.

We've seen the Wilson hospital pictures ands have seen slight discloring on his right cheek -- odd enough for having been hit in the driver's seat of a car (where you'd expect a left cheek strike). As KDCat said, does it make sense to, after running, stop, and then charge the guy that just shot you and has drawn down on you?

Brown was not "twice the weight" of Wilson, nor was he "significantly taller." Both men are and were 6'4". Brown did outweigh Wilson by 70-80 pounds.

At the end of the day, we'll likely never really know what went down out there. It's time for mandatory police body cameras. Period. That way nobody has to take anybody's word for anything anymore.