Miss America 2015

[1964Alum]

Hazing is completely foreign to me. I certainly never saw nor experienced anything that could even remotely be construed as hazing in Chi Omega. The only thing I ever heard from any of the other NPC sororities on campus that raised some eyebrows in my pledge class was the actives of some of the other groups going through the closets of pledges and telling them what they could and could not wear. We never had any of that as we assumed that anyone we pledged already knew how to dress :-).

That a Miss America had had her pin jerked is troubling to me. Having a pin jerked by Chi Omega is a VERY serious matter. And not appearing at her Standards hearing is also disturbing. She certainly took herself out of the comity of her sisterhood and thumbed her nose at its standards. And not as a young 18 year old. Most of us here were once Seniors looking forward to the next chapters in our lives and making preparations for same. I cannot think of a single woman throwing her sisterhood under the bus.

This Miss America is not a good example for young girls, nor for Greeks.

I will have to see how she handles this. It *could* be constructive, but IMO not as long as she remains in denial about the seriousness of her behavior which resulted her sorority jerking her pin.

[Alpha O]

This is the Good Morning America Interview, if anyone hasn't seen it yet: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/kira...tions-25694983

This is the description of the video ABC has up:

Kira Kazantsev says she participated in the sorority's culture of hazing, but accusations of abuse are groundless.

And this is a transcript:

In your experience, what happened at Hofstra university?
These allegations are not true. I'm incredibly hurt that someone has said these things.
Under the broad definition of hazing, yes, I was involved with some of those activities while I was at Hofstra. I came in as an impressionable freshman. And I was hazed.
And that was the culture and brought up through the organization thinking that was appropriate. I'm two years removed, I understand that's not true.

What did it include?
It included something like you would stand in a line and recite information. Or a few sleepless nights crafting. Things that -- that were like menial tasks.
And you were told that if you could learn the information and participate in the traditional things you would be a member of the sorority.

Why did your sorority, alpha phi have you leave in April of 2013 after an investigation?
I was asked by a new member educator when I was a senior to reach out to the alumni base to have an event of sorts.
And in the e-mail I basically made a joke that was taken out of context and forwarded to the national office.

What was the joke that you made in that e-mail?
That we would make the evening scary for the pledges. When that event never came to fruition. None of those things that I have been accused of never happened or were intended to happen.

So of the accusations, which are the most inflammatory? Which ones 100% do you know that never happened?
All I can do is sit here and be honest. Yes, I was involved under the broad definition of hazing at some point. But never, ever in a million years what this is claiming to hold.

Will you make hazing part of your platform now? Will you include that in your anti-female violence campaign?
Well, I think now that, obviously, this is all -- this is all out in the open and I think it's very important for me to address it. I'm going to take this negative and turn it into a positive.

One last question.I know my 9-year-old watched with wide eyes, what would you say to young girls who look up to you as miss America? What would you say to them about this?
I would tell them it's okay to make mistakes. You know, that's life.

I know this isn't the worst sort of hazing or abuse that any of us can think of, but it's definitely being minimized. Just from what she said here, I think this hazing was abusive. This isn't something like the new members having a scavenger hunt which is something that would fall under the broad definition of hazing, but in all likelihood is not actually abusive. I am disappointed that she isn't taking more responsibility for her actions.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get more information about this and it doesn't look like Miss America is going to do anything either.

[AGDee]

http://www.today.com/news/report-mis...40923_32132676

This report gives more detail about the nature of the hazing.

[Cheerio]

As long as the Miss America Organization is satisfied with Kira's explanation, I can see no good in dismissing her from her new title. Moving forward with purpose and poise works, and so far Kira has.

Whether she'll still be allowed to take her place at Notre Dame's Law School after her reign is another question.

[Low D Flat]

I would be extremely surprised if a law school rescinded an acceptance over this kind of hazing. If we were talking about forced drinking, violence, physical danger, then maybe.

[PhiMuAlum]

Originally Posted by Jen

I don't think Alpha Phi would have terminated her membership just for skipping a Standards meeting - termination is a huge, permanent step, and I don't see EO doing it lightly.

I totally agree! There is more to this story that is not being publicized.

[ASTalumna06]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...se-aggressive/

A 2010 Hofstra graduate who took part in sorority rush, but did not pledge, had a darker tale. The 26-year-old did not know Kazantsev, but attended the school at the same time as her.

“I know there were a few sororities specifically that were known for doing more aggressive hazing practices than others," she said. "Alpha Phi specifically had a mixed reputation--- either [people said] their hazing wasn’t really hazing at all, it was silly and they kind of got made fun of for it [or], on the other side of the spectrum, [people said] they were really aggressive.”

She said generally at Hofstra, the sororities limited hazing to “mental abuse,” but sometimes things got physical.

“A lot of the sororities are known for doing branding…I don’t know if Alpha Phi did it. One sorority [not Alpha Phi] would use a fork and heat it and [burn it into students’ skin to leave a scar]. It was usually right before they got in,” she revealed. “That specific practice (branding) was kind of common.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1949372

Under Kazantsev’s direction as head of recruitment for the Alpha Phi sorority at the Hempstead, L.I., college, pledges were put through a ringer of abuse and belittling, the source said. Recruits were called foul names, berated for physical imperfections, and forced to perform tasks that left some exhausted and bruised, the source told the website. When Hofstra University was tipped off about the “dirty pledging” that Kazantsev and her best friend, a sorority sister, were up to, officials launched an investigation.

Kazantsev said on Tuesday she was ultimately booted in April 2013 for a joke, “taken out of context” and forwarded to the Alpha Phi national office, that she’d made in an email.

[LAblondeGPhi]

In general, I'm much more receptive to folks (CEOs, public figures, whatever), who take responsibility head-on for their behavior and don't try to minimize the issue, or if they take a full defensive posture when allegations are actually 100% false.

I think most people can pick up on even a hint of defensiveness, and generally don't like it, even if they agree with most of what's being said.

If she had been a little more "I did this, and I regret those actions in hindsight. Even what some may consider mild hazing is detrimental to our organizations and to people" and less "it was only some crafting and sleepless nights... my email was taken out of context", then I would be more inclined to be on her side. As it stands, the facts may pan out just as she's said, but I still think she has the wrong attitude about the whole thing, and that bugs me the most now.

[azureblue]

The new Miss New York is Jillian Tapper, an Alpha Delta Pi from Florida State. She takes over due to Kira winning Miss America. Congrats, Jillian!

[phialum]

Does anyone think it is a little tone deaf for Alpha Chi Omega's Clemson chapter to be hosting Miss America -- a former member of Alpha Phi -- at the University on Oct 28th?? I understand the "message" is about domestic violence awareness, but this "messenger" seems all wrong in the context of a Greek community & recent hazing allegations.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by phialum

Does anyone think it is a little tone deaf for Alpha Chi Omega's Clemson chapter to be hosting Miss America -- a former member of Alpha Phi -- at the University on Oct 28th?? I understand the "message" is about domestic violence awareness, but this "messenger" seems all wrong in the context of a Greek community & recent hazing allegations.

Yes. That is what they are.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by Alpha O

While I agree with the rest of y'all about the ridiculous rumors in the Jezebel article, I found this video (posted in one of the comments) to be interesting, informative, and funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDPCmmZifE8

Brilliant! (Well, except Kathy Griffith. Not a fan.)

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Hazing is completely foreign to me. I certainly never saw nor experienced anything that could even remotely be construed as hazing in Chi Omega.

Were you initiated or born in 1964? I was an active in the late 1970s. During my entire Advisor experience, I was forever be held up as an example of someone who was hazed. I had a pledge notebook - hazing. I wore a pledge ribbon with my pledge pin for the first week - hazing. I answered the chapter telephone - hazing. I served beer & soda at a mixer - hazing.

I'm not trying to call you out on hazing, or on your GLO, but rather, pointing out that the definition of hazing has changed drastically over the years. If a sister doesn't do it, it's considered hazing. At least, by Alpha Delta Pi standards.

Knowing that the current Miss America did something, even in an email to her national, disturbs me. I think she's also a bad example of sorority women.

Originally Posted by azureblue

The new Miss New York is Jillian Tapper, an Alpha Delta Pi from Florida State. She takes over due to Kira winning Miss America. Congrats, Jillian!

YIPPEE!!!

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Brilliant! (Well, except Kathy Griffith. Not a fan.)


Were you initiated or born in 1964? I was an active in the late 1970s. During my entire Advisor experience, I was forever be held up as an example of someone who was hazed. I had a pledge notebook - hazing. I wore a pledge ribbon with my pledge pin for the first week - hazing. I answered the chapter telephone - hazing. I served beer & soda at a mixer - hazing.

I'm not trying to call you out on hazing, or on your GLO, but rather, pointing out that the definition of hazing has changed drastically over the years. If a sister doesn't do it, it's considered hazing. At least, by Alpha Delta Pi standards.

Knowing that the current Miss America did something, even in an email to her national, disturbs me. I think she's also a bad example of sorority women.


YIPPEE!!!

Please tell me you didn't participate in a scavenger hunt too! And the very worst of all - being called a pledge. How humiliating. The wounds from our hazing experiences will never heal!

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

Please tell me you didn't participate in a scavenger hunt too! And the very worst of all - being called a pledge. How humiliating. The wounds from our hazing experiences will never heal!

Yes, I am WOUNDED FOR LIFE!!! (You couldn't tell??)

Seriously, all this new wording makes me crazy at times. Nobody pledges - they take their New Member (vows? oath?). Yikes!

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Brilliant! (Well, except Kathy Griffith. Not a fan.)


Were you initiated or born in 1964? I was an active in the late 1970s. During my entire Advisor experience, I was forever be held up as an example of someone who was hazed. I had a pledge notebook - hazing. I wore a pledge ribbon with my pledge pin for the first week - hazing. I answered the chapter telephone - hazing. I served beer & soda at a mixer - hazing.

I'm not trying to call you out on hazing, or on your GLO, but rather, pointing out that the definition of hazing has changed drastically over the years. If a sister doesn't do it, it's considered hazing. At least, by Alpha Delta Pi standards.

Knowing that the current Miss America did something, even in an email to her national, disturbs me. I think she's also a bad example of sorority women.


YIPPEE!!!

I was initiated in 1964. Pledged the fall of '63. I was proud to be a Chi Omega pledge and had no expectation to have all the privileges of an initiated member. Which I was not as a pledge. I was happy to wear my pledge pin; attend weekly pledge meetings; have this period to have private coffee times with each active member; keep a pledge notebook; and learn more about my sorority, her history, and principles. There was nothing remotely belittling or degrading about it. We also had a pledge retreat, gave a party for the actives, and had a formal Pledge Presentation given for us. We worked alongside the actives on elections, homecoming, and the like. We had a long pledge period as we weren't initiated until after our Fall semester grades had come in. And we had to make our grades to be an initiated member. There was a lot of give and take between us and the initiated members. We were all offered a lot of help and support.

Now if the above now constitute "hazing", then I think the definition needs to be refined. I don't remember a single pledge in either my pledge class or any after me thinking that what was expected or required of us to be onerous or demeaning in the least. I don't remember anyone failing to make her grades, either. Nor did we feel "entitled" to be full members upon the acceptance of our bid.

Retention rate in Chi Omega remains very high, so we must be doing something right!