Baby tests positive for illegal drugs? Arrest the mom.

[als463]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, I don't work on the delinquent docket at all. It would be hard to infer from anything I've said that I work on a delinquent docket. That's okay though, it just shows that you have little knowledge of what a typical juvenile justice system looks like. All of my juvenile work is in representing deprived children or alleged deprived children. They are or allegedly are all the victims of their parents' abuse or neglect. When I'm representing children, it is usually at the show cause (the non-profit I volunteer with provides attorneys to appear at the show cause hearings to take the burden off of the public defender's office) and I appear on the regular juvenile docket when the public defender's office is conflicted out. I also represent parents who are have had their children picked up in trying to reunify the family.

See. When you say the above things regarding volunteering with non-profits, you appear to be a pretty okay guy who many of us would really like and respect. I completely love that you volunteer and I respect that. I think that's great. When you say things where you come off as pretentious by telling people about all your knowledge and how much more you know than them or how much more educated than them you are (or think you are), it's hard to say, "Wow. That Kevin is pretty awesome." I applaud you always taking on the title of "that guy" who will say something that is unpopular because you believe it. I truly like that about you. You just need to work on going out and assuming you know way more than other people. When you do that, it's hard to really appreciate you for the person you are. Just think about it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by als463

See. When you say the above things regarding volunteering with non-profits, you appear to be a pretty okay guy who many of us would really like and respect.

I liken it to the white person who volunteers with Black youth because Black people are supposedly too dumb and need white people to save them. No, thanks we don't need your help. We have genuine people who volunteer and don't think Black people are inferior.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by als463

See. When you say the above things regarding volunteering with non-profits, you appear to be a pretty okay guy who many of us would really like and respect. I completely love that you volunteer and I respect that. I think that's great. When you say things where you come off as pretentious by telling people about all your knowledge and how much more you know than them or how much more educated than them you are (or think you are), it's hard to say, "Wow. That Kevin is pretty awesome." I applaud you always taking on the title of "that guy" who will say something that is unpopular because you believe it. I truly like that about you. You just need to work on going out and assuming you know way more than other people. When you do that, it's hard to really appreciate you for the person you are. Just think about it.

The thing is though with these families, I work for them pro bono, I see where they live and how they live and really do get to know them a lot of the time. Sometimes, I just get a 15 minute report from a caseworker and then have to do something with it. Other interactions are more in depth.

When I state that I have a lot of experience with poverty and child neglect and abuse, I'm just stating facts. And my experience is vast compared to your average individual.

Education... I wouldn't exactly claim that. I've gone to plenty of juvenile CLEs and as you know, poverty is often a contributing factor to abuse and neglect.. and back to the main topic, in some situations, it is absolutely needed to give law enforcement the power to charge mothers who harm their children in utero criminally.

Keep in mind that for most criminal offenses, especially for females, especially for non-violent offenses, incarceration is not what the prosecutor is going for. There are many wonderful programs like drug court which can provide extra incentive for parents to shake up. I've seen too many times where mothers who really love their kids just can't seem to shake their drug habits. I had one mother who I really went the extra mile for her and got her placed on the state's dime in two different inpatient facilities. She checked herself out both times.

Had she been facing serious time, we might have had better luck.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

When I state that I have a lot of experience with poverty and child neglect and abuse, I'm just stating facts. And my experience is vast compared to your average individual.

That is not representative of poor people and it excludes the non-poor. Get a diversity of experiences to avoid supporting policies based on misrepresentation and extremes.

[als463]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The thing is though with these families, I work for them pro bono, I see where they live and how they live and really do get to know them a lot of the time. Sometimes, I just get a 15 minute report from a caseworker and then have to do something with it. Other interactions are more in depth.

When I state that I have a lot of experience with poverty and child neglect and abuse, I'm just stating facts. And my experience is vast compared to your average individual.

Education... I wouldn't exactly claim that. I've gone to plenty of juvenile CLEs and as you know, poverty is often a contributing factor to abuse and neglect.. and back to the main topic, in some situations, it is absolutely needed to give law enforcement the power to charge mothers who harm their children in utero criminally.

Keep in mind that for most criminal offenses, especially for females, especially for non-violent offenses, incarceration is not what the prosecutor is going for. There are many wonderful programs like drug court which can provide extra incentive for parents to shake up. I've seen too many times where mothers who really love their kids just can't seem to shake their drug habits. I had one mother who I really went the extra mile for her and got her placed on the state's dime in two different inpatient facilities. She checked herself out both times.

Had she been facing serious time, we might have had better luck.

Everything I've highlighted (bolded in pink) are examples of the kind of Kevin I like talkikng to. I'm sure many others would agree with me on that. I believe that you have tons of experience in this area and I definitely would not argue that. You just have to be careful not to assume that your knowledge and experience trumps that of other people. DrPhil and many others on here also have extensive knowledge in these areas. As far as the education thing goes, once again, you are well-educated. You hold a J.D. That is respectable and no one could argue that. I think what really turned me, and some others on here, off was when you claimed to hold more or better education than many of us---not really knowing what degrees we may hold or our levels of experience/ education. That made it an all-out war on here as we went back and forth (I am also to blame for this) playing, "Who can be the most pretentious and have the last word?" Just remember that many of us on here have lots of experience and education in these particular areas and can also contribute to the discussion.

I appreciate that both you and DrPhil will have this discussion with very different points of views. Otherwise, this entire thread could potentially be one-sided. While you can educate us on the legal system dealing with certain issues, I believe DrPhil can educate us on intersectionality. Let's try and respect one another in this thread--and other threads too.