12 Year Old Stabbed by "BFF"

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Even psychopathy/sociopathy are widely debated as mental illness vs. "just evil/bad/morbid people". Antisocial disorders are in the DSM but some experts consider psychopathy/sociopathy to go way beyond antisocial traits. Many violent people (abusers, murderers, mass murderers, and serial killers) are dismissed as "just evil/bad/morbid people" who were conscious and cognizant rather than empathized as people whose behaviors were caused by a mental illness; and whose behaviors could have been reduced in likelihood with mental health services.

I know this is kind of a tangent, but I recently used an article related to the topic of psychopathy in an assignment for my students. (In fact, I'm grading them right now!) You might find the results interesting.

Primary psychopathy is related to a deficit in affective empathy with no change in cognitive empathy, which means that such individuals "retain their ability to read and assess others’ emotions, and subsequently utilise this sensitive information to formulate strategies with which they can acquire what they want, while their lack of affective empathy may lead them to overlook or ignore potential harm inflicted to others in the process".

Participants high in primary psychopathy "experienced positive affect towards sad emotions, thus showing affective desensitisation and discordance to such stimuli. Additionally, primary psychopaths experienced positive affect towards angry and fearful expressions"; they also were "associated with experiencing negative affect towards happy expressions". This is "consistent with neuroimaging studies that tend to show highly psychopathic individuals demonstrating dysregulation in the amygdala, which is known to play a role in coordinating emotional responses".

Lastly, "primary psychopathy demonstrated significant deficits in the accurate identification of all expressions except neutral".

I personally consider psychopathy to be a personality disorder. So far as treatment goes, one can treat the symptoms (aggression, impulsivity, etc.) medically. Therapy can be effective but we've seen mixed results.

Even if serious, violent criminals can point the cause of their violence to a mental disorder such as psychopathy, I'd rather see them go to the mental ward of a prison then be placed in a "normal" psychiatric institution or released to the streets. They'll get the help they need, and are no longer a danger to the general populace.

Anyway, tangent over and back to grading for me.

[DrPhil]

Thanks for procrastinating with us, WhiteRose1912. The experts keep updating information and fueling the debate on these "disorders".

***********
ETA: There are people who've said "they're just kids" and "mental illness is to blame" or "Slender Man is to blame".

Ghoulish Stabbing Raises Question: Who is Slenderman?

Google "Slender Man" or "Slenderman" and find websites with a lot of information and http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKgXGdAJ8Ak

Many of us who grew up playing video games like Contra, Altered Beast, Mortal Kombat, and Street Fighter; and grew up watching movies like vampire and werewolf movies, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, The Exorcist, and Pumpkinhead are hardly convinced that this Internet meme "caused" anything.

[ADPiEE]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Thanks for procrastinating with us, WhiteRose1912. The experts keep updating information and fueling the debate on these "disorders".

***********
ETA: There are people who've said "they're just kids" and "mental illness is to blame" or "Slender Man is to blame".

Ghoulish Stabbing Raises Question: Who is Slenderman?

Google "Slender Man" or "Slenderman" and find websites with a lot of information and http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKgXGdAJ8Ak

Many of us who grew up playing video games like Contra, Altered Beast, Mortal Kombat, and Street Fighter; and grew up watching movies like vampire and werewolf movies, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, The Exorcist, and Pumpkinhead are hardly convinced that this Internet meme "caused" anything.

I think this has to be a combination of many things working together. Violent media doesn't cause people to kill. Mental Illness doesn't normally cause people to kill. Bad home environments don't routinely cause people to kill. However, horrible things like this still happen. My husband and I wonder if things like this happen more now or if we just hear about it more now?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ADPiEE

My husband and I wonder if things like this happen more now or if we just hear about it more now?

Changes in reporting crime to law enforcement and the media.

These types of offenses remain rare.

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by ADPiEE

I think this has to be a combination of many things working together. Violent media doesn't cause people to kill. Mental Illness doesn't normally cause people to kill. Bad home environments don't routinely cause people to kill. However, horrible things like this still happen. My husband and I wonder if things like this happen more now or if we just hear about it more now?

I think it happens way more now, and seems to get worse. It's becoming out of control.

[StealthMode]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

I personally consider psychopathy to be a personality disorder.

First of all, MANY prayers of peace to these families and healing to that poor little girl. I can't imagine walking into the woods with my friends and having that happen.

Second, Phil's right in that research is constantly updating with these terms and descriptions. AFAIK "psychopathy" is an outdated term but the description you posted is the accurate definition of antisocial personality disorder (which makes your above statement correct). It is true that these person's lack affective empathy but that does not change their cognitive ability to know right from wrong or know when they are causing suffering.

Sidebar: I met one patient with this disorder while working inpatient and it was terrifying because of how smooth he was in his manipulation. He was polite, soft-spoken, and charming--you would have never guessed he was capable of the crimes he committed against his wife. To this day, I get creeped out thinking about him.

/sidebar

That being said, a 12yo can't be diagnosed with a personality disorder. Even if these personality traits are present early on, they wouldn't be the cause for these actions. The girls (presumably) know right from wrong and legal from illegal. I'm not sure how I feel about charging them as adults but...planning this since February? That is more than "mental illness" or being "just kids." That is a combination of both plus more than I can even imagine. And since that article linked to another about a 14yo who stabbed her little sister, I'm thoroughly disturbed.

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by StealthMode

Second, Phil's right in that research is constantly updating with these terms and descriptions. AFAIK "psychopathy" is an outdated term but the description you posted is the accurate definition of antisocial personality disorder (which makes your above statement correct). It is true that these person's lack affective empathy but that does not change their cognitive ability to know right from wrong or know when they are causing suffering.

You're doing PsyD, right? (I think?) I'm over here in the PhD camp, so you'll have more knowledge than I. Nevertheless... there's debate about whether or not ASPD and psychopathy are the same. I'm in the camp that they're not. ASPD diagnoses are based off of Checkley's work from 1941 and only focus on behaviors; psychopathy is based largely off of Hare's PCL-R (1991/2003). The article I had to read over and over about while grading my students' papers used Levenson's Self-Report Psychopathy scale, which is similar to Hare's work. The more recent edition of the PCL-R uses a three-factor model, but the dark triad article sticks to the two-factor approach of primary and secondary psychopathy. Primary psychopathy is what I was talking about in my little quote snippets. It's more genetics-based and is associated with narcissistic personality disorder, social potency, low anxiety, and low empathy. The PCL-R describes primary psychopathy as "selfish, callous and remorseless use of others". Secondary psychopathy is more environmental in origin and is associated with ASPD and borderline personality disorder. The PCL-R labels secondary psychopathy with "chronically unstable, antisocial and socially deviant lifestyle".

Essentially, ASPD is behaviors. Psychopathy is personality. The DSM-V kind of acknowledges this by including an alternative model of ASPD with psychopathic features, but they don't include psychopathy as its own personality disorder.

So, yeah. Another tangent (sorry), but it produced a fun discussion among my cohorts with whom I'm maxing and relaxing.

[DrPhil]

The DSM will keep being updated based on politics, research, and experiences. Many crime experts study psychopathy/sociopathy as personality and behavioral traits that are not a "mental illness". Because, again, many people take "mental illness" to mean something outside of the person's consciousness and cognition.

Research is ongoing and nonstop for a very good reason.

Thanks for these tangents.

[ASTalumna06]

Wow, I didn't know Slender Man is "a thing" on the internet.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet...et-age-n121741