Texas A&M: To rush or not to rush?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by TXGreekMom

It will be interesting to see what the impact to the state is, in 5-10 years when fewer of these kids bring their educations home.

I hope it leads to more diverse hiring in Texas companies.

[TXGreekMom]

Am not a regular, DeltaBetaBaby, so please forgive me if I am missing some context here, but...

Is your implication that the Texas students leaving en masse because there are more opportunities at out-of-state schools, thanks to the automatic admissions law at TX public universities (which ranges from top-10% up to top-7% depending on the campus), are disproportionately white?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by TXGreekMom

Am not a regular, DeltaBetaBaby, so please forgive me if I am missing some context here, but...

Is your implication that the Texas students leaving en masse because there are more opportunities at out-of-state schools, thanks to the automatic admissions law at TX public universities (which ranges from top-10% up to top-7% depending on the campus), are disproportionately white?

Yes, that is my assumption.

[TXGreekMom]

This study actually reviewed a large urban school district over six years of graduates, and found that students eligible for automatic admission under the Texas law are more likely to be white and female, and less likely to be low-income.

Other findings: "eligibility for automatic admission appears to have little effect on college enrollment and choice for the most-disadvantaged urban high schools."

The point they appear to be making is that socioeconomic and diversity impacts aren't presenting, and that the only clear result is that more top-ranked kids (many of whom already have their choice of schools) are choosing state over private/out-of-state. There doesn't seem to be a demonstrated result of increasing matriculation among under-represented students. That's just my read.

But the effects on flagship enrollment are concentrated in the district’s most-advantaged schools. Indeed, when we calculate effects by the percentage of students at a high school who attend college, we find no evidence of effects on college choice in the schools with the lowest college-sending rates. Although the college-sending rates of the highest-performing high schools in the sample are low relative to Texas as a whole, our findings suggest that offering eligibility for automatic admission may not be effective at accomplishing even the narrow goal of increasing access to the top public universities for students in the most-disadvantaged settings.

All this is only to say: I am no higher ed expert, but it seems counter-intuitive to me that we can know that automatic admissions is keeping more non-white students "at home" in Texas public universities, or that we can assume that it will create a more diverse Texas workforce.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by TXGreekMom

This study actually reviewed a large urban school district over six years of graduates, and found that students eligible for automatic admission under the Texas law are more likely to be white and female, and less likely to be low-income.

Other findings: "eligibility for automatic admission appears to have little effect on college enrollment and choice for the most-disadvantaged urban high schools."

The point they appear to be making is that socioeconomic and diversity impacts aren't presenting, and that the only clear result is that more top-ranked kids (many of whom already have their choice of schools) are choosing state over private/out-of-state. There doesn't seem to be a demonstrated result of increasing matriculation among under-represented students. That's just my read.



All this is only to say: I am no higher ed expert, but it seems counter-intuitive to me that we can know that automatic admissions is keeping more non-white students "at home" in Texas public universities, or that we can assume that it will create a more diverse Texas workforce.

It looks like TTP is indeed putting more low-income students and students of color into the flagships, but they are students who would have gone on to a University anyway, just a different one. So it is meeting the goal of increasing diversity at UT and TAMU, but we don't know who, if anyone, actually benefits from that.

[HQWest]

I believe the original idea (during Bush's stint as governor) of Texas's law was to encourage minority participation. It happened to occur at the same time as a down turn in the economy and more qualified students decided to stay in state. I think I remember reading that overall UT has seen small increases in minority participation but larger increases in accessibility for students from rural areas (which tend to have a higher percentage of first generation students). These students are also the students that are less likely to have had college prep Or AP classes or to know how to deal With a 450 person Chem 101 class?

(And unfortunately not all AP classes are created equal?)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I think that some of the Bridge program students were absolutely academically ready for Clemson while others weren't. My boyfriend's younger brother got accepted to the Bridge program, and I was angry because IMO there's no reason (that I know of) that he shouldn't have been accepted to Clemson outright.

Did it maybe have to do with what he wanted to major in? I know that was a factor getting into branch campus vs. main campus at Penn State.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Did it maybe have to do with what he wanted to major in? I know that was a factor getting into branch campus vs. main campus at Penn State.

Hmm...it might have, and that's a point I didn't consider. He wanted to do some kind of engineering, I don't know what specifically. He was fully accepted and given scholarship money to Auburn for engineering, which I consider similarly competitive to Clemson. Ultimately he's doing a similar transfer program that will have him spend two years at the University of North Georgia, and then if he's successful he gets automatically accepted to transfer to Georgia Tech.

It seems like more schools overall are doing these transfer programs that let them "gamble", so to speak, on students they thought were qualified but not quite enough so to fully accept. Obviously that's not the case for every school, especially those constrained by state laws that limit acceptances, but I'd call it a general trend among state schools with the resources to partner with a second school nearby.

[aggiemom14]

I don't normally comment, but I noticed there is some misinformation on here regarding admissions. There are two guaranteed admission methods: auto admits ( top 10% rank, TX resident) and academic admit (top 25%, 1300 SAT/ 30 ACT (with score min.), any residency category).

Currently, roughly 70% of admissions are guaranteed admissions, 30% are review admits. Review admits are evaluated on everything (rank,scores, essays, recs, EC, etc). They are primarily offered: full admission, gateway (summer at A&M probationary to full admission), PSA ( a year at another A&M location then transfer), Blinn Team ( co-enroll A&M and Blinn CC, then transfer) or rejection. There is also a feeder program for certain majors at participating CCs (PTA). All the alternate programs include an academic requirement be met for the transfer to occur.

Regarding the sororities wanting BT members to participate - maybe at the leadership of Panhellenic, but it is not a grass roots campaign by the members themselves. Most were annoyed by the prospect, these students were not able to attain full time status for admissions & they still have to academically qualify, so it makes no sense to them. If they are looking to grow Greek Life, they should put more emphasis on recruitment at NSC (new student conferences) and inspire more full time students to consider joining. The university sponsored club fair is a few weeks after sorority recruitment ends freshman year, so many do not consider joining when they have to wait a full year or try for a few spring bids.

[33girl]

Who are these most you speak of?

And from what's been presented, it seems the majority of BT students are completely academically, socially and otherwise good candidates for sorority membership at a competitive rush school. They just happened to go to HS with lots of other people who were similarly stellar.

And call me cuckoo, but I really don't think the majority of people interested kn Greek life at TAMU need to attend a club fair to be aware of it. If we were talking Maine A&M, it might be a different story.

[aggiemom14]

Regarding my post the word 'most' refers to the quantitative evaluation of chatter against the idea. No, there's no formal poll nor head count, just an observation as school ended and the membership rules were changed.

BT students I'm sure are socially wonderful, however they do attend a CC for 45 units and A&M for 15 units of classes. It can take 2 years to become a full A&M student (although they can apply as a transfer student earlier). I was not evaluating their character, nor ability to be a good candidate - the only issue is that normally CC students are not allowed to join, but they have become exceptions.

Since my daughter has worked the club fair, I know that the method/process for joining sororities is not as well known to all students as it could be at this school. That's why I mentioned it.

[33girl]

They ARE exceptions. They're not normal CC students. They're students who have to squeeze through the eye of a needle to get into a school that normally they wouldn't have any problem getting into if there wasn't a ridiculous arbitrary state regulation in place.

[Just interested]

We can discuss this until we are "blue in the face" but the ultimate decision belongs to each chapter to determine their membership. How they deal with the Blinn girls is up to them. Aggiemom14 is referring to the fact that the chapters were blindsided with this decision at the end of the year. There was no vote but a change in their bylaws (which was needed) a matter of semantics and a request from the University.
We will see what each chapter decides to do. This is a slippery slope and it remains to be seen how it will all play out.

[CMDelta]

I understand that they have to "academically qualify" to get into A&M after a year or two but I wanted to comment because I've already met with 2 BT students for recs and I'm sure I'll be meeting with a few more. The first girl came out of an "academy" program in HS, took multiple AP courses that she got credit for and currently has over a 3.4 at Blinn/A&M. She missed automatic admit last year by 20 SAT points since she wasn't in the top 10% of her HS. The other girl went to a private school that doesn't qualify for automatic admit (I don't think) because it's either private or doesn't rank but she had a 3.89 GPA, was in the top quartile of her HS but was 3 points low on her ACT (even though she had a 1710 SAT). We live in an ultra-competitive area so I'm thrilled these girls will have the opportunity to join a sorority and be an involved member for 4 years (instead of having to wait a year or two) even though they didn't automatically get in to A&M. I've shared with both of them that I'm glad they are giving it a shot BUT that we don't know yet how it's going to play out with each chapter making their membership decision. They both already knew that the sororities will know who is at A&M and who is BT. As for promoting it at NSC in the summer, they must have some kind of info session or table because we end up getting quite a few girls who don't register with our panhellenic until after they come back from NSC where they have heard more about Greek life.

[TSteven]

The chapters will know which PNMs are Texas A&M admits and which PNMs are Blinn PNMs. However - and maybe I missed it - will there be a separate quota for the Blinn PNMs?