Texas A&M: To rush or not to rush?

[als463]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

Yes. Don't forget OU, LSU, and Ole Miss.

The schools have more or less invented a new category of student here. Are they full-time enrolled undergraduates? Kinda. At least, there's an argument for treating them that way.

What Texas is doing is unique AFAIK. Montana State also allows students enrolled in its junior college to live in MSU housing, use student services, etc., but I don't think they've made a path to Greek life.

Actually the University of South Carolina has a program just like this called Gamecock Gateway. Students are accepted provisionally and they live in dorms on campus but, attend the local community college. After a year, if they have made the grade, they are eligible to be full-time South Carolina students. They even get South Carolina ID cards. I would really like to see them allow the students in that program to go through recruitment but, that is set by the school and it has never, to my knowledge, been brought to the attention of the campus Panhellenic. I think it helps lessen the stigma of being in one of these special programs.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by als463

Actually the University of South Carolina has a program just like this called Gamecock Gateway. Students are accepted provisionally and they live in dorms on campus but, attend the local community college. After a year, if they have made the grade, they are eligible to be full-time South Carolina students. They even get South Carolina ID cards. I would really like to see them allow the students in that program to go through recruitment but, that is set by the school and it has never, to my knowledge, been brought to the attention of the campus Panhellenic. I think it helps lessen the stigma of being in one of these special programs.

Clemson has the same concept program, called Bridge To Clemson or something like that. There are currently on-campus dorms being built to house students in this program but as of right now we have a good deal of girls go through recruitment as sophomores facing a much tougher GPA requirement because they weren't allowed to go through recruitment as freshmen. I'm not sure if fraternities can recruit or choose to recruit these students on the down low but I know that sororities can't. There's also a lot of friction between students in this program and full-time Clemson students re: whether they truly go to Clemson or not, which allowing Bridge students to join Greek life might ease.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

Clemson has the same concept program, called Bridge To Clemson or something like that. There are currently on-campus dorms being built to house students in this program but as of right now we have a good deal of girls go through recruitment as sophomores facing a much tougher GPA requirement because they weren't allowed to go through recruitment as freshmen. I'm not sure if fraternities can recruit or choose to recruit these students on the down low but I know that sororities can't. There's also a lot of friction between students in this program and full-time Clemson students re: whether they truly go to Clemson or not, which allowing Bridge students to join Greek life might ease.

Soooo... let me see if I have this right. The 250 or so Blinn Team freshmen take some or most classes at A&M but count as Blinn students. Clemson is even building dorms on campus for the their version of these students. How many of their classes do they take at the CC, and how many at the main campus?

Seems like the university is playing games with the numbers? They get to say they are staying more selective and not growing the overall size of the university by keeping within a certain range of acceptances, but then they have this waitlist of students who will go through the Blinn program in the hopes of getting into A&M next year. (Die hard Aggies one would assume.) At that point, they can replace other previously higher ranked students who transfer or drop out or fail out or if they fail out of Blinn they don't count against the university's 4 or 6 year graduation rates?

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Soooo... let me see if I have this right. The 250 or so Blinn Team freshmen take some or most classes at A&M but count as Blinn students. Clemson is even building dorms on campus for the their version of these students. How many of their classes do they take at the CC, and how many at the main campus?

Seems like the university is playing games with the numbers? They get to say they are staying more selective and not growing the overall size of the university by keeping within a certain range of acceptances, but then they have this waitlist of students who will go through the Blinn program in the hopes of getting into A&M next year. (Die hard Aggies one would assume.) At that point, they can replace other previously higher ranked students who transfer or drop out or fail out or if they fail out of Blinn they don't count against the university's 4 or 6 year graduation rates?

I had to look it up since I didn't know these numbers off the top of my head, but the Bridge To Clemson page says that students in this program are enrolled at Tri-County Technical College for a year and are required to complete 30 credits there before automatically being enrolled at Clemson. This phrasing makes it sound like they're not Clemson students since they take no classes at Clemson and are required to reapply for admission to Clemson if they don't meet the 30 credit requirement. In this regard I suppose Clemson's program is different from the Blinn Team program.

ETA: Found this on the Bridge Program FAQ:

Can Bridge students pledge a Clemson fraternity or sorority?
No. Due to policies governing national social fraternities and sororities, Bridge students may not join one of these organizations until after they enroll at Clemson.

I think the reason the Blinn program and others like it in the state of Texas exist is because there's state laws on the books saying that they can only accept the top X percentage of high schoolers from any high school, thus forcing still-qualified students who didn't make that percentage for whatever reason to gain acceptance through these Texas programs. I think it's a better alternative than not letting qualified applicants in to the school at all, but it probably does make their overall graduation numbers look better if they calculate them a certain way.

[33girl]

It seems like it's a little bit different in Texas as the main reason many of these students end up in Blinn and similar programs are because of the top 10% rule, not because their academics aren't quite up to snuff.

[carnation]

Oh, the Top 10% Rule has everything to do with it! Here are these outstanding kids who want to be part of one of the big Texas universities and they can't get in, while some of the Top 10% grads who did get in are hugely unprepared for even community college. Does the state of Texas win with this program? No, they lose massive numbers of outstanding grads to nearby state universities--and they may not come back to Texas after they graduate.

Georgia Southern University has a program in which prospective students who don't quite qualify for admission attend East Georgia College but their classes are on the Southern campus. Last I knew, they couldn't live on campus, pledge a social fraternity or sorority, or play varsity athletics but they can join anything else. The high school grade factor would probably keep them from pledging anyway.

With a certain GPA after 30 hours, they can become regular Southern students.

[als463]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

I had to look it up since I didn't know these numbers off the top of my head, but the Bridge To Clemson page says that students in this program are enrolled at Tri-County Technical College for a year and are required to complete 30 credits there before automatically being enrolled at Clemson. This phrasing makes it sound like they're not Clemson students since they take no classes at Clemson and are required to reapply for admission to Clemson if they don't meet the 30 credit requirement. In this regard I suppose Clemson's program is different from the Blinn Team program.

ETA: Found this on the Bridge Program FAQ:



I think the reason the Blinn program and others like it in the state of Texas exist is because there's state laws on the books saying that they can only accept the top X percentage of high schoolers from any high school, thus forcing still-qualified students who didn't make that percentage for whatever reason to gain acceptance through these Texas programs. I think it's a better alternative than not letting qualified applicants in to the school at all, but it probably does make their overall graduation numbers look better if they calculate them a certain way.

The Clemson program sounds just like Gamecock Gateway at University of South Carolina. I know that those students who are accepted, and it's a smaller number like 90-100, still receive the same acceptance envelope as undergraduates at USC who are accepted fully into the university with the Gamecock logo saying, "YES!" That way, it doesn't feel like an outright rejection because it isn't. The students live in the dorms, eat on campus, and also attend various campus sporting events and activities. Like you feel about Clemson, I would really like to see University of South Carolina eventually allow students in this program to go Greek because I think it would help them feel more like students.

As far as universities trying to mess with their enrollment numbers, I was under the impression that the ones in Gamecock Gateway and Clemson's Bridge Program were also top students who slightly missed out and got cut for some reason like lack of being prepared for college. I'd love to see my other alma maters do something like this also.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by als463

The Clemson program sounds just like Gamecock Gateway at University of South Carolina. I know that those students who are accepted, and it's a smaller number like 90-100, still receive the same acceptance envelope as undergraduates at USC who are accepted fully into the university with the Gamecock logo saying, "YES!" That way, it doesn't feel like an outright rejection because it isn't. The students live in the dorms, eat on campus, and also attend various campus sporting events and activities. Like you feel about Clemson, I would really like to see University of South Carolina eventually allow students in this program to go Greek because I think it would help them feel more like students.

As far as universities trying to mess with their enrollment numbers, I was under the impression that the ones in Gamecock Gateway and Clemson's Bridge Program were also top students who slightly missed out and got cut for some reason like lack of being prepared for college. I'd love to see my other alma maters do something like this also.

But the South Carolina schools don't have a 10% rule (or something similar) like Texas, do they? Clemson and USC don't have especially rigorous admissions standards, so if those transitional students were college-ready, they would have gotten in. I would think they would not be great candidates for Greek life, and may have difficulty making it through recruitment because they may be viewed as grade risks. Or, if they did get bids, the time commitment of Greek life could derail their admissions goals.

[als463]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

But the South Carolina schools don't have a 10% rule (or something similar) like Texas, do they? Clemson and USC don't have especially rigorous admissions standards, so if those transitional students were college-ready, they would have gotten in. I would think they would not be great candidates for Greek life, and may have difficulty making it through recruitment because they may be viewed as grade risks. Or, if they did get bids, the time commitment of Greek life could derail their admissions goals.

University of South Carolina has an acceptance rate of 60.6% and Clemson has a 57.9% acceptance rate. Texas A&M has a 67.1% acceptance rate while University of Alabama accepts 53.1% and University of Texas-Austin accepts 46.8%. I'd say that University of South Carolina and Clemson are definitely on par with some of these other schools. Even other schools in the SEC like UGA (56.1% acceptance) and Tennessee (67.3% acceptance) are comparable to South Carolina while other schools in the ACC like Syracuse (51.3% acceptance) and Pitt (56.1% acceptance) are comparable to Clemson. These are all really good schools, in my mind.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one irishpipes (even though you always have so much great insight on stuff). I don't think Gamecock Gateway or Clemson's Bridge students would be less attractive as members in terms of sorority recruitment. I only say this because I know the programs that are currently and being put in place for these types of students at these schools to maintain high academic standards and help retention.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

But the South Carolina schools don't have a 10% rule (or something similar) like Texas, do they? Clemson and USC don't have especially rigorous admissions standards, so if those transitional students were college-ready, they would have gotten in. I would think they would not be great candidates for Greek life, and may have difficulty making it through recruitment because they may be viewed as grade risks. Or, if they did get bids, the time commitment of Greek life could derail their admissions goals.

I think that some of the Bridge program students were absolutely academically ready for Clemson while others weren't. My boyfriend's younger brother got accepted to the Bridge program, and I was angry because IMO there's no reason (that I know of) that he shouldn't have been accepted to Clemson outright.

I think that if students at Clemson and USC were actually enrolled at the school, they would have a better case for being allowed to go through recruitment and placing the onus of accepting them or not on the individual chapters. Since they don't take classes at these schools during their freshman year, it's much harder to justify letting them go through recruitment at schools they're technically not matriculated at. This is the big difference between the transitional programs for students in South Carolina and the transitional programs for students in Texas.