The Problem with Autism Speaks

[DrPhil]

In that case, how can we trust any "warning signs" or predispositions for any condition?

There are people who do not have biological children because of warning signs and predispositions for certain conditions. There are also people who insist on having biological children despite (and sometimes as a result of) warning signs and predispositions for certain conditions. I am in favor of the former rather than the latter but people should do what works for whomever (the biological parents? The future offspring?). I'm also pro-choice so people need to figure out what they are willing to endure based on whatever information available.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

In that case, how can we trust any "warning signs" or predispositions for any condition?

There are people who do not have biological children because of warning signs and predispositions for certain conditions. There are also people who insist on having biological children despite (and sometimes as a result of) warning signs and predispositions for certain conditions. I am in favor of the former rather than the latter but people should do what works for whomever (the biological parents? The future offspring?). I'm also pro-choice so people need to figure out what they are willing to endure based on whatever information available.

Let's use Tay Sachs as an example. Genetically it is recessive and based on a single gene and kills by age 5 generally. In the Orthodox Jews in Israel, young people are tested assigned a number and a couple of is interested in each other can enter both of their numbers into a computer to see if they both carry the gene. That's with a single gene.

Breast cancer, you've got about 5 or 6 different genes which lead to higher risk, get any one or two and you've got a higher probability.

Autism and Homosexuality, OTOH get a *lot* grayer. You're looking at a *lot* more genes, less ability to eliminate environmental factors. And they aren't even close to having a blood test for it. It is entire possible that both of these are neither genetic or environmental, but rather a complex effect of what genes are expressed and which are shut down in the course of fetal development. So since in both cases, you have examples of identical twins raised together that end up with different results (gay/straight) or (Autism Spectrum/Neurotypical), what do they expect to be able to look for?

Also for Autism Speaks, what exactly is a cure? You're dealing with the basic wiring of the brain in how the brain processes input. Do I think that there are exercises that through repetition will help with processing input better, probably, but that that point you are at psychological treatment, not psychiatric and certainly not the pill/shot that would represent a cure to AS...

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by naraht

Homosexuality

Do you consider this a disease, disorder, or condition?

[33girl]

Too many posts to quote, but maybe the problem is that nowadays the word autism simply covers too much. I'm in my 40s and have always heard of people being autistic, but for the majority of my life it was only applied to those in the lower functioning end of the spectrum. Until it's ascertained how it occurs, perhaps it would be beneficial to have more names for gradations of the spectrum (like Asperger's).

[naraht]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Too many posts to quote, but maybe the problem is that nowadays the word autism simply covers too much. I'm in my 40s and have always heard of people being autistic, but for the majority of my life it was only applied to those in the lower functioning end of the spectrum. Until it's ascertained how it occurs, perhaps it would be beneficial to have more names for gradations of the spectrum (like Asperger's).

Autism today *certainly* covers a wider range of neurodiversity. What's still unclear to me is that is whether the percentage of those who are autistic still increases if viewed with a constant definition of who is autistic.

High Functioning and Low Functioning are used in diagnoses, but again, trying to draw a bright line between them is difficult.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Homosexuality - Do you consider this a disease, disorder, or condition?

Certainly *not* a disease, *perhaps* a disorder only in some technical medical definition that covers considerably more than the average layman would expect and I have no idea what a condition would cover.

And only "treatable" in ways that rip gigantic bleeding gashes in the psyche and the soul.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by naraht

Certainly *not* a disease, *perhaps* a disorder only in some technical medical definition that covers considerably more than the average layman would expect and I have no idea what a condition would cover.

And only "treatable" in ways that rip gigantic bleeding gashes in the psyche and the soul.

Really? Interesting.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by naraht

Autism and Homosexuality, OTOH get a *lot* grayer. You're looking at a *lot* more genes, less ability to eliminate environmental factors. And they aren't even close to having a blood test for it. It is entire possible that both of these are neither genetic or environmental, but rather a complex effect of what genes are expressed and which are shut down in the course of fetal development. So since in both cases, you have examples of identical twins raised together that end up with different results (gay/straight) or (Autism Spectrum/Neurotypical), what do they expect to be able to look for?
.

Are you sincerely correlating homosexuality with autism?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Are you sincerely correlating homosexuality with autism?

Huh? Where did I indicate that there is any correlation between homosexuality and autism? I have seen *no* studies indicating that someone who is at either end of the Kinsey scale is more or less likely to be at any level on the Autism spectrum.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by naraht

Huh? Where did I indicate that there is any correlation between homosexuality and autism? I have seen *no* studies indicating that someone who is at either end of the Kinsey scale is more or less likely to be at any level on the Autism spectrum.

I guess I don't understand why you're bringing homosexuality into the discussion of autism, period. The Kinsey scale goes from homosexual to heterosexual. The autism spectrum goes from mildly autistic to severely autistic. Are you comparing homosexuals to severely autistic individuals? Mildly autistic ones? What the hell, dude?

[33girl]

No no no no no. Don't get it twisted. He's just talking about those two things as two things whose causation can maybe be found on genes. Call them boodle and moodle, if it will raise fewer moral hackles.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I guess I don't understand why you're bringing homosexuality into the discussion of autism, period. The Kinsey scale goes from homosexual to heterosexual. The autism spectrum goes from mildly autistic to severely autistic. Are you comparing homosexuals to severely autistic individuals? Mildly autistic ones? What the hell, dude?

No. I'm comparing two situations where the genetic component is *far* too complex for it to make rational sense to think about a prenatal test and yet there are those of which I am *definitely not* a supporter where they talk about a "cure" as being able to do a prenatal test in order to do an abortion.

Please point out *any* posting I've made in this thread or any other which is opposed to anyone in any position on the Kinsey scale. Note, I do oppose the use of the Kinsey scale as I think using a single dimensional measure for sexuality is considerably to simplistic.