Hobby Lobby

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

NO
no one is being held hostage in that corporation. Vote with your feet. LEAVE.

This is exactly how I feel about it. We have freedom to work wherever we are able to get a job (legally) right? So if you don't like it...don't work there.

Originally Posted by irishpipes

What about a government that's able to force its views on its citizens? That seems more ominous than any employer doing that.

I get where you're going with this (and I agree with the spirit of what you're saying), but we do have these things called "laws" that were put into place by our government...

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

This is exactly how I feel about it. We have freedom to work wherever we are able to get a job (legally) right? So if you don't like it...don't work there..

You put AZTheta's two separate thoughts together and left out her "on the other hand," which indicates that she sees two different sides to the issue.

If you're going to quote someone, quote with accuracy.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

You put AZTheta's two separate thoughts together and left out her "on the other hand," which indicates that she sees two different sides to the issue.

If you're going to quote someone, quote with accuracy.

thank you. Nothing pisses me off quite like being misquoted, or having people put words in my mouth that I didn't say (or type).

The only thing that pisses me off more is the use of ellipses in place of correct punctuation or concise writing. There's one poster on GC who does it constantly. It's way worse than those smilies.

(waits for DrPhil to snipe at me, b/c I deserve it)

[barbino]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

thank you. Nothing pisses me off quite like being misquoted, or having people put words in my mouth that I didn't say (or type).

The only thing that pisses me off more is the use of ellipses in place of correct punctuation or concise writing. There's one poster on GC who does it constantly. It's way worse than those smilies.

(waits for DrPhil to snipe at me, b/c I deserve it)

You missed the capital "T" in Thank you, dear ...

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by barbino

You missed the capital "T" in Thank you, dear ...

OK. Thanks for pulling down my pants. Oh, and welcome back. Where the hell you been?

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

thank you. Nothing pisses me off quite like being misquoted, or having people put words in my mouth that I didn't say (or type).

The only thing that pisses me off more is the use of ellipses in place of correct punctuation or concise writing. There's one poster on GC who does it constantly. It's way worse than those smilies.

(waits for DrPhil to snipe at me, b/c I deserve it)

eek.... Sorry....

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

thank you. Nothing pisses me off quite like being misquoted, or having people put words in my mouth that I didn't say (or type).

The only thing that pisses me off more is the use of ellipses in place of correct punctuation or concise writing. There's one poster on GC who does it constantly. It's way worse than those smilies.

(waits for DrPhil to snipe at me, b/c I deserve it)

I won't let you hijack this thread. LOL.

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Both very fair points. In my mind, I was thinking more of a hourly employee that could probably walk across the street to Michaels and get a job fairly easily. It definitely is much deeper than that.

Hobby Lobby and Michaels employees tend to fit a certain demographic to typically match the customers. But, you're right it is more complex than that. The availability of good paying and long term employment varies based on a number of factors including demographics.

Allowing companies to do what Hobby Lobby is attempting to do places yet another restriction on the average American who doesn't have employment options and money saved for a rainy day. This would also disproportionately impact racial and ethnic minority women. These companies might as well put their socio-politico-religious ideologies on the job application and tell potential applicants that there will be restrictions. Of course, that would be discriminatory and EEOC worthy. Then again, as far as I'm concerned so is this---they are just using a different avenue to discriminate.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

What about a government that's able to force its views on its citizens? That sees more ominous than any employer doing that.

I completely agree, which is why I oppose all of the laws that try to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body or who two consenting adults are allowed to marry.

Originally Posted by irishpipes

Thanks for your condescending comment. Today's newest polling data shows that 26% of Americans support the ACA. There have been plenty of laws in our country's past that were wrong, discriminatory, etc. Just because something is a law doesn't mean it isn't oppressive.

This varies greatly by the poll, apparently. The one released by the Kaiser Foundation survey said this (posted in the last 10 hours):

Almost half of those surveyed (49%) said they wanted Congress to "keep the law in place and work to improve it." Another 10% said Congress should simply leave the law as is.
By contrast, about 3 in 10 either wanted the law repealed outright (18%) or repealed and replaced with a Republican alternative (11%).

Major provisions of the law are quite popular, including subsidies to help people buy insurance, expansion of Medicaid, the guarantee that people can’t be denied coverage because of pre-existing medical problems and the rule eliminating out-of-pocket costs for preventive care, Kaiser found. But 40% to 50% of Americans do not know that the law includes each of those provisions.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politi...#ixzz2xIZjz5Xq


I do not think companies should be able to impose their beliefs on their employees. I took the "Leave" comment to mean as a consumer or stock holder and I have chosen that route with Hobby Lobby. I will never step foot in that store. A brand new one opened here in the past few years and I simply will not shop there.

The easy answer to all of it is to take health insurance out of the hands of the employer. Easy peasy. Employers can give employees vouchers for the equivalent of what they spend and employees can go to the exchange and buy what they need- not what their employer wants to pay for. It is absolutely ludicrous that your employer gets to choose what kind of health insurance you can get. If you want an HMO, you should be able to get the one you want. If you want a PPO, you should be able to get a PPO. If you want a high deductible plan with an HSA, then you should be able to get that. Why in the world should your employer determine what you get to have? It's absurd.

[BraveMaroon]

This is one of a number of moves Hobby Lobby has made that I consider to be asinine. They lost my business when they refused to stock Hanukkah items.

Let their workers vote with their feet. I'll vote with my wallet.

[Jill1228]

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

This is one of a number of moves Hobby Lobby has made that I consider to be asinine. They lost my business when they refused to stock Hanukkah items.

Let their workers vote with their feet. I'll vote with my wallet.

^^^
Yup this!
They're building one here in my city--they won't be getting one thin dime from me

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Dnpgopenguins

Except for medical conditions that require you to take BC, or it you have a dependent who wants to take BC maybe for a medical condition.

Exactly. I have a couple friends who were prescribed birth control for other conditions. One of them has an IUD for PCOS (Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome). Another was prescribed birth control pills for acne**. If the pill didn't cause extreme side effects for me, I would have continued taking them for just that reason; my skin had never looked better!

**I know that the Hobby Lobby case doesn't involve BC pills, but if this passes, you can bet other companies will probably try to exclude coverage for those as well.

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

It's pretty troubling that Hobby Lobby getting a lot of political sympathy in part because they're framing the disputed medications as abortifacients instead of contraceptives. OBGYNs say that they aren't abortifacients, but Hobby Lobby says that they can decide biochemical questions according to their religious faith. According to their argument, if an employer decided that ibuprofen is an abortifacient, motivated by sincerely held religious belief, then they can refuse to cover it.

I cannot wait for the case where an employer says they'll only cover maternity care for married women. It's coming.

Or the case where a company won't cover treatment for AIDS, because that's a "gay disease." The possibilities are endless… and outrageous.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I'm really interested in the turnout, though I am a bit worried as well. I think it's very dangerous to give corporations the right to exercise religious freedom. For one thing, who's beliefs are being applied? It allows potentially one person to discriminate against who knows how people, because the person with more money obviously has a greater interest in freedom of religion then those without.

This is what I keep wondering. Let's pretend it's the CEO. What happens when a new CEO takes over and they want to cover these forms of birth control? And let's say 10 years later, another CEO comes in and refuses to cover them all over again?

People can say, "speak with your feet," or whatever, but what happens when you go to a new company and they implement a similar restriction? Or maybe they win a case where they can refuse treatment for some other medication that you need?

If this passes, the court system is going to overflow with desired exceptions from companies.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Then again, as far as I'm concerned so is this---they are just using a different avenue to discriminate.

Amen

[ASTalumna06]

Haha.. And it begins...

Satanists use Hobby Lobby decision to play devil's advocate:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/satan...ry?id=24772548

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

we do have these things called "laws" that were put into place by our government...

Thanks for your condescending comment. Today's newest polling data shows that 26% of Americans support the ACA. There have been plenty of laws in our country's past that were wrong, discriminatory, etc. Just because something is a law doesn't mean it isn't oppressive.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

You put AZTheta's two separate thoughts together and left out her "on the other hand," which indicates that she sees two different sides to the issue.

If you're going to quote someone, quote with accuracy.

Oh, I'm sincerely sorry! I didn't mean to misquote or leave part out...was just stating/bolding/supporting how I felt about it?

Originally Posted by irishpipes

Thanks for your condescending comment. Today's newest polling data shows that 26% of Americans support the ACA. There have been plenty of laws in our country's past that were wrong, discriminatory, etc. Just because something is a law doesn't mean it isn't oppressive.

Again, wasn't trying to be condescending...I don't fully support the ACA either. But I do try to support the government where possible.

And I wasn't fully quoted either (which was the part where I said I agreed with the spirit of what you said?), but nobody jumped on IP?