Hobby Lobby

[DrPhil]

Some companies allow employees to choose the type of insurance coverage or opt out of company sponsored insurance.

But there are issues with having the ability to opt out. It sometimes benefits the company and employees to have the consistency of the company sponsored insurance. Also, some employees who opt out are reminded of why they wanted an employer that provides insurance in the first place. The average employee would struggle if they had to get their own insurance.

[Tulip86]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Remove it from employer control and let us choose our own completely.

This is what they did in the Netherlands a while ago, just after I moved here first. They went from a system where the employer provides health insurance, to a system where the individual is responsible for selecting their insurance, and paying for it. Health insurance is mandatory for every citizen and if you have a lower income, you get a compensation so it becomes affordable. The compensation is provided by the government.

They all cost about the same, and get more expensive if you want a lot of coverage, but you can strip it down to the bare necessities. For example you chuck out pre-natal care, opticians, orthodontic care and homeopathy, but you have to be insured for the dentist, medical emergencies, hospital stay, any illness (mental and physical) and most medications. Children under 18 are insured for free.

I'm not saying it will work in the US, and it is by no means perfect, but it does allow you to customize insurance to your needs and employers don't have any influence on which insurance you pick.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

I'm not saying it will work in the US, and it is by no means perfect, but it does allow you to customize insurance to your needs and employers don't have any influence on which insurance you pick.

It most likely wouldn't work in the US given the history of health care, insurance, and stratification. There's a reason many Americans prefer insurance through an employer rather than individual insurance and that includes cost and having a liaison. Plus, government subsidized insurance for the poor would be viewed as an unworthy handout worse than TANF, The Affordable Care Act, and the medical/health organizations that struggle to service underserved populations.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

Health insurance is mandatory for every citizen and if you have a lower income, you get a compensation so it becomes affordable. The compensation is provided by the government.

They all cost about the same, and get more expensive if you want a lot of coverage, but you can strip it down to the bare necessities. For example you chuck out pre-natal care, opticians, orthodontic care and homeopathy, but you have to be insured for the dentist, medical emergencies, hospital stay, any illness (mental and physical) and most medications. Children under 18 are insured for free.

I'm not saying it will work in the US, and it is by no means perfect, but it does allow you to customize insurance to your needs and employers don't have any influence on which insurance you pick.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It most likely wouldn't work in the US given the history of health care, insurance, and stratification. There's a reason many Americans prefer insurance through an employer rather than individual insurance and that includes cost and having a liaison. Plus, government subsidized insurance for the poor would be viewed as an unworthy handout worse than TANF, The Affordable Care Act, and the medical/health organizations that struggle to service underserved populations.

It sounds to me like most people who oppose universal health care argue it based on cost, personal freedoms, and/or a belief that the government will screw up anything it gets it's hands on.

I was doing a lot of campaign work in 2012 in Northern Virginia, where we'd get lots of tourists from other parts of the U.S. and the conservative ones loved to argue with me. All of the arguments I heard were a combination of those three things above.

I like the Dutch example. I think the only way a semi-universal healthcare system will work in our country is if you allow people to upgrade their coverage if they can afford it. Otherwise the roadblock will be people complaining they have to wait 184 months to get a triple bypass they needed yesterday (my disagreements with those kinds of arguments will be saved for another time).

[DrPhil]

New opinion pieces:

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[DubaiSis]

When I started my new job and asked about insurance, my employer said they offer it but it's crazy expensive and recommended I look into Obamacare. It is very affordable for me ($200/month) and I don't have the hassle of what happens to my insurance if...
This IS probably an alternative for employees at places like Hobby Lobby. And since they get paid crap they would probably have very cheap insurance, especially if this Hobby Lobby job isn't a 2nd or 3rd income in the household.

But to me that shouldn't mean Hobby Lobby gets let off the hook. They should provide full health coverage, which includes well-woman services, which includes reproductive control. I'm sorry to the world that women are more expensive than men. But for a company who probably 99% of their customers are women, they should be more in tune with women's issues. Support the home team and all that.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

When I started my new job and asked about insurance, my employer said they offer it but it's crazy expensive and recommended I look into Obamacare. It is very affordable for me ($200/month) and I don't have the hassle of what happens to my insurance if...
This IS probably an alternative for employees at places like Hobby Lobby. And since they get paid crap they would probably have very cheap insurance, especially if this Hobby Lobby job isn't a 2nd or 3rd income in the household.

But to me that shouldn't mean Hobby Lobby gets let off the hook. They should provide full health coverage, which includes well-woman services, which includes reproductive control. I'm sorry to the world that women are more expensive than men. But for a company who probably 99% of their customers are women, they should be more in tune with women's issues. Support the home team and all that.

If Hobby Lobby employees apply for ACA coverage, they won't be eligible for subsidies. If your employer (or your spouse's) offers coverage, you are not eligible for a subsidy. This is problematic for many of my company's lower paid employees who can't afford our premiums or our $3,000 deductible, but aren't eligible for a decent rate under the ACA.

[DubaiSis]

That system works well for the Brits too. Most of my friends had extra coverage, but when they lost jobs or whatever, they were thrilled to have the perfectly good state-sponsored coverage. The Brits I know LOVE their insurance system.

My presumption has been all along that we would start with a lousy ass insurance system to be the least objectionable option and move toward single payer over, say, 20 years. Or 50. I don't think any, even the hardest lefties among us, think this system is great. But this is what was able to get through Congress. It's not going away but there ARE fixes to be made. The conservatives who don't like it should start working for fixes that don't involve letting poor people die in the streets or depend on the kindness of strangers.

[DrPhil]

Do the Dutch and the Brits have the same underlying factors as the US? The answer is "no" for most factors and "yes" for some factors.

Attempting to mirror other countries' practices only works when controlling for other factors and addressing a number of problems. However, the US struggles with gun control, reproductive rights, health insurance, public education, a living wage, and tons of other issues. When the US struggles for common ground in those regards it is impossible to mirror the Dutch and Brits.

[Tulip86]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Do the Dutch and the Brits have the same underlying factors as the US? The answer is "no" for most factors and "yes" for some factors.

Attempting to mirror other countries' practices only works when controlling for other factors and addressing a number of problems. However, the US struggles with gun control, reproductive rights, health insurance, public education, a living wage, and tons of other issues. When the US struggles for common ground in those regards it is impossible to mirror the Dutch and Brits.

I agree on most points. Having lived in both countries , and experiencing both insurance through employers and personal choice, I'm just glad to be rid of the employer provided insurance for now. I just hope I don't ever have to work for a religious employer who enforces their beliefs on their employees when I return to the US.

[maconmagnolia]

The one thing I worry about if the Supreme Court rules in Hobby Lobby's favor is that who else will step up and try to not cover certain things because of "religious reasons"? Will companies refuse to cover cancer treatments, etc. because of "religious reasons"? That worries me. If you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by maconmagnolia

The one thing I worry about if the Supreme Court rules in Hobby Lobby's favor is that who else will step up and try to not cover certain things because of "religious reasons"? Will companies refuse to cover cancer treatments, etc. because of "religious reasons"? That worries me. If you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.

[maconmagnolia]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

Lol! I loved that book when I was younger.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by maconmagnolia

Lol! I loved that book when I was younger.

Ditto! It was my mantra at a former job that required lots of managing expectations!

[Kevin]

Yeah. I think the most interesting hypo is that suddenly the entire Fortune 500 converts to the Church of Christian Science which believes that medical treatment goes against the word of God. I'll bet their health plans would be super cheap.