Ohio State Budget Abortion Restrictions

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by AGDee

That article also describes the problem with the transfer of a patient with complications.

"Some clinics that provide abortions could be forced to close because of a new transfer requirement that forbids publicly funded hospitals from signing agreements to take patients from clinics. Those agreements are required before the Ohio Department of Health grants an abortion clinic permission to operate."

So that's a Catch 22, right? Perhaps it is because I'm from Detroit, where 911 is already way to slow with documented cases of people dying while waiting for them to show up 45 minutes later, but I don't think a 911 emergency system should be used for a routine transfer between two medical facilities. I was transferred from a freestanding ER to a hospital for admission, by ambulance, on Monday. These are routine types of transfers, not emergencies per se.

Just last week, my husband was dispatched to a doctors office, where a patient was having a heart attack. It was the medics that saved that woman's life, because they were there within 3 minutes of getting the call. When they got to the scene, not a single doctor or nurse had done any chest compressions, and she had no pulse. The doctor stood there with his thumb up his ass while the 3 medics, my husband included, intubated, started an IV line, and alternated giving her chest compressions. That was indeed an emergency situation, certainly not a case of needing a routine transfer. I fail to see how that is any different from an emergency situation during an abortion. We've seen Burn, and things in Detroit (and places like LA) are in dire straights. Places like Columbus, not so much.

My pro-life stance has nothing to do with my faith. (I'm also very pro-gay rights, my church telling me it's a sin has no impact on my feelings). I think the adoption culture in our country is crap. Abortion as a means of birth control makes me very sad, because I know SO many potentially wonderful parents who are waiting for a baby to adopt. If the public psychological resources existed to helped women with unwanted pregnancies carry to term and give the baby to an adoptive family, that would be an amazing thing and help so many people. Then those same resources have to be there to help the birth mother during her post-partum years as well. During a case of rape/incest, I can understand the justification for an abortion (as early as possible) because it is emotionally detrimental to the mothers mental health. Again, it would be wonderful if the state provided the mental health resources to help a woman carry a child to term in rape/incest cases. We barely have enough public mental health resources to help all of the other people who need it, let alone help for moms with unwanted pregnancies.

Middle aged men using their faith as the basis for the laws is BS, in my opinion. I wish there were more female advocates, as well as mental health advocates to make this NOT about what some constitute as "sin." It's about mental health, and those same middle aged men don't think that is a priority.

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

My pro-life stance has nothing to do with my faith. (I'm also very pro-gay rights, my church telling me it's a sin has no impact on my feelings). I think the adoption culture in our country is crap. Abortion as a means of birth control makes me very sad, because I know SO many potentially wonderful parents who are waiting for a baby to adopt.

To start, technically abortion is birth control... it controls birth... albeit after conception. Second, the research summarily dismisses the "abortion as birth control" argument pretty regularly... there isn't some weird glut of lady folk running around using abortions as their primary form of birth control... urban legend/anti-choice stereotype. Finally, the existence of infertile couples isn't cause to force women with unwanted pregnancy to be brood mares.

Fact remains that abortion is about ending a pregnancy... it's not about avoiding parenthood (as obviously adoption is always an option). When pro-life folks champion adoption as the go-to option, I can't help but think they really just don't get it... they still think it's acceptable to force/coerce a woman to endure the very real risks to her life and health for the better part of a year because they think it's the "right thing to do."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Sure, many. Many hundreds. Possibly even many thousands. Tens of millions of Americans call abortion murder.

I see how differently people behave when born children are being murdered in front of them. You try to change the law in addition to direct action.

I agree that tens of millions of Americans believe abortion is immoral, tragic, etc. But exactly the same as shooting fourth graders in the head? Nah, not many really believe that. And if I'm wrong, and tens of millions truly believe that there's a Newtown massacre happening every day in every city in America, and their reaction is to pursue legal action alone (or do nothing at all), then that's a far less flattering picture of the movement than my claim, which is just that they're using exaggerated rhetoric.

I see your point, though I think the Newtown shootings aren't at all an apt analogy. The people protecting children there were people already in the school who had at least some relationship to the children there. Other than law enforcement, there weren't random strangers running in to throw themselves in front of the bullets. Your earlier reference to Auschwitz (which I recognize was a reference to comparisons that those opposed t choice might make rather than your own comparison) might have been a closer analogy, though I'm well aware that comparisons to the Holocaust can be unnecessarily inflammatory and Godwin the discussion in no time flat.

But don't you see how refusing to accept what people say their beliefs are can come across as disrespectful and dismissive at best and arrogant and condescending at worst, especially if you throw the "exaggerated rhetoric" in there, or make judgments about what actions someone else's beliefs should require them to take? Telling someone they don't really believe what they say they believe is usually a pretty effective dialogue killer. I would certainly wonder why I should bother talking with someone who seems to think they know more about what I believe than I do.

I'm not saying to uncritically accept whatever someone says. But I think we get a lot further if we give people the basic respect of taking them at their word about their beliefs and experiences. If we start there, then we can explore (and challenge) the implications of those beliefs, if not the beliefs themselves -- as long as we're also willing to be on the receiving end of exploration and challenges.

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

Fact remains that abortion is about ending a pregnancy... it's not about avoiding parenthood (as obviously adoption is always an option). When pro-life folks champion adoption as the go-to option, I can't help but think they really just don't get it... they still think it's acceptable to force/coerce a woman to endure the very real risks to her life and health for the better part of a year because they think it's the "right thing to do."

I would sooner die than give birth to a baby I didn't want. People don't get it. You are not saving lives by making abortion illegal.

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

My pro-life stance has nothing to do with my faith. (I'm also very pro-gay rights, my church telling me it's a sin has no impact on my feelings). I think the adoption culture in our country is crap. Abortion as a means of birth control makes me very sad, because I know SO many potentially wonderful parents who are waiting for a baby to adopt. If the public psychological resources existed to helped women with unwanted pregnancies carry to term and give the baby to an adoptive family, that would be an amazing thing and help so many people. Then those same resources have to be there to help the birth mother during her post-partum years as well. During a case of rape/incest, I can understand the justification for an abortion (as early as possible) because it is emotionally detrimental to the mothers mental health. Again, it would be wonderful if the state provided the mental health resources to help a woman carry a child to term in rape/incest cases. We barely have enough public mental health resources to help all of the other people who need it, let alone help for moms with unwanted pregnancies.

Yes, yes, yes.