Supreme Court VRA Decision

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I do quite a bit of pro bono in the juvenile deprived courts here in OKC, so I do deal with all levels of socioeconomic status and cultural/racial diversity. In fact, believe it or not, I'm a huge advocate of culturally competent approaches for Child Welfare workers and have some pretty good war stories in that department.

Thing is, my meth moms, black/latino/whatever etc., are capable of obtaining proper identification. Seriously, if these folks can do it, so can anyone in the world.

I was asking whether your legal profession is the only exposure you have with diverse socioeconomic, cultural, and ethnic environments. Unfortunately, yes, you only have such exposure through the legal profession.

The "if they can do it, anyone can do it" logic does not work with every social outcome. I know people with terminal degrees, extensive resume', and a vigorous voting record who came from impoverished environments. I would never use these people as models to quite literally say "if they can do it, anyone can do it" because I know even they had resources that the average person in their environment does not have. Their positive outcome represents a small percent of the outcomes of the other people from these environments. They can be role models for others but people should never take "if I can do it, anyone can do it" too literally. It is presumptuous to truly believe that everyone can do everything at the same level. Using the inept argument is placing thousands of people in a box that disproportonately impacts people of lower socioeconomic status and racial and ethnic minorities. Are people saying a large segment of poor people and minorities are inept? I believe in personal accountability and agency but people are not inept just because things do not go the way I, personally, would prefer.

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I spoke with someone earlier who was saying the VRA was not gotten rid of completely, changes were made, so what is all the big fuss. I explained that small changes lead to big changes. We know the routine and we know the game. It happens in all aspects of life where people follow the "slow but steady wins the race" routine. Let us not act brand new.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I was asking whether your legal profession is the only exposure you have with diverse socioeconomic, cultural, and ethnic environments. Unfortunately, yes, you only have such exposure through the legal profession.

It's a pretty intimate level of exposure. Culture is often a big tool for me in choosing the most compatible services for my clients. For example, if my clients are Latino, I have a number of Latino-focused resources. If they're black, I tend to send them to service providers who are also black. The tribes kind of have their own thing going and YMMV from tribe to tribe, so woriking with NA folks is always interesting. When providers are culturally competent though, the outcomes tend to be better. Not to mention the fact that our service providers can often recognize cultural incompetence with regard to our child welfare workers, which in turn makes life easier for me.

The "if they can do it, anyone can do it" logic does not work with every social outcome. I know people with terminal degrees, extensive resume', and a vigorous voting record who came from impoverished environments.

heh.. NONE of my parents have terminal degrees. Some barely speak English. Others are addicts or criminals. They can get IDs. So yes, if they can do it, so can anyone. I work with the real down and out folks. Especially when I'm doing my pro bono work.

Are people saying a large segment of poor people and minorities are inept?

That seems to be what you're saying... I'm not buying that. There's just not an excuse for not being able to come up with some form of ID that I'll accept. If there's a will, there's a way. If people are responsible adults and maintain basic identification paperwork, they won't have problems. If they're irresponsible, they might miss an election or two and if they care, it's not a huge deal to get things straightened out. At least not here. If I was reading another post and saw that the state of Texas was requiring folks to physically present themselves in Austin to obtain paperwork, yes, that's a ridiculous and significant barrier and is totally unreasonable. Someone on a fixed income can't just travel from, say Amarillo to Austin on a lark.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's a pretty intimate level of exposure. Culture is often a big tool for me in choosing the most compatible services for my clients. For example, if my clients are Latino, I have a number of Latino-focused resources. If they're black, I tend to send them to service providers who are also black. The tribes kind of have their own thing going and YMMV from tribe to tribe, so woriking with NA folks is always interesting. When providers are culturally competent though, the outcomes tend to be better. Not to mention the fact that our service providers can often recognize cultural incompetence with regard to our child welfare workers, which in turn makes life easier for me.


heh.. NONE of my parents have terminal degrees. Some barely speak English. Others are addicts or criminals. They can get IDs. So yes, if they can do it, so can anyone. I work with the real down and out folks. Especially when I'm doing my pro bono work.

The fact that you missed my point regarding exposure outside of the legal profession is troublesome. Even still, the people who you say have IDs still do not represent the majority of their socioeconomic, racial, ethnic, and language group. Is everyone else just inept?

Originally Posted by Kevin

That seems to be what you're saying...

Only you have made this topic about ineptitude. This is not about whether people "suck" versus "don't suck." Social change never happens if groups of people (we aren't just talking about individuals or a couple of people) are led to believe all of their social outcomes are a result of sucking. This topic is about why certain groups have greater access to resources than other groups of people and what can be done so that a larger number of people can gain access. How can you (Kevin) help people in your professional career if you believe everything boils down to ineptitude versus aptitude? Individual consciousness and agency are not the only criteria for desired outcomes.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I spoke with someone earlier who was saying the VRA was not gotten ridden of completely, changes were made, so what is all the big fuss. I explained that small changes lead to big changes. We know the routine and we know the game. It happens in all aspects of life where people follow the "slow but steady wins the race" routine. Let us not act brand new.

Yeah, this was only a small part of it which set forth a formula for which districts would be subject to the VRA. Section 5 still exists, so if Congress was to come up with an alternate, more contemporary formula applying to all 50 states, they might get SCOTUS blessing.

With Republicans in the House though, good luck with that.