Division in America

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Mizeree I2K

I think the issue is still based on race, and that alone. A black dude can have money, his own business, be intelligent, have power, etc. and the same white dude who he thinks he's on the same level as will call him a "nigga" in a minute. We are still not looked at as being as equal as white folks.

Meh. There are some people like that, but they are slowly dying off. The black dude has money, his own business, intelligence and power. He is winning whether the idiot that wants to call him the N word wants to admit it or not.

[Mizeree I2K]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Meh. There are some people like that, but they are slowly dying off. The black dude has money, his own business, intelligence and power. He is winning whether the idiot that wants to call him the N word wants to admit it or not.

I feel you, and your post makes sense. But the part that I don't agree with is the part about it "dying off". It isn't.

[DrPhil]

IotaGuy, you know better than this. This issue is not about racial slurs. You may never be called a racial slur in your life (to your face). But, systemic oppression does not disappear just because people are smiling at you. Systemic oppression does not require people to be overtly rude or demeaning. That is why social inequalities (all social inequalities, and not just the inequalities that individuals care about when playing the Ranking of Oppressions) will always exist. ETA: The existence of successful racial and ethnic minorities does not reduce the existence and impact of systemic oppression.

The emphasis on slurs, prejudice, the overt, and kumbaya is why "colorblindness" was attempted and the resulting "colorblind racism" is pervasive. The idea was that if we can pretend there is no such thing as race, ethnicity, culture, language, and other things that differentiate groups of people, that means that humans are all robots that look alike, talk alike, live alike, etc.. More accurately, this was the "whiteness of the world" in that white privilege allowed whites (in general) to pretend that they, themselves, do not have a race and ethnicity. Under colorblindness and colorblind racism, whites transferred this into pretending as though "I don't see race." I have heard whites say things like "I don't even notice your race...you're kind of white like me." Uh...no, bitch, do not turn me into a white person to make yourself feel more comfortable and don't equate "race and ethnicity" with "racism". They are not synonymous. Although inequalities are durable as long as there are visable differences across people, that doesn't mean that we need to be ashamed and afraid of certain differences. Race, ethnicity, culture, and language are social and cultural rather than biological but they are still "real." Things do not stop being "real" just because humans created them.

And this fits into this thread somehow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBus4gHF1FE

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

IotaGuy, you know better than this. This issue is not about racial slurs. You may never be called a racial slur in your life (to your face). But, systemic oppression does not disappear just because people are smiling at you. Systemic oppression does not require people to be overtly rude or demeaning. That is why social inequalities (all social inequalities, and not just the inequalities that individuals care about when playing the Ranking of Oppressions) will always exist.

The emphasis on slurs, prejudice, the overt, and kumbaya is why "colorblindness" was attempted and the resulting "colorblind racism" is pervasive. The idea was that if we can pretend there is no such thing as race, ethnicity, culture, language, and other things that differentiate groups of people, that means that humans are all robots that look alike, talk alike, live alike, etc.. More accurately, this was the "whiteness of the world" in that white privilege allowed whites (in general) to pretend that they, themselves, do not have a race and ethnicity. Under colorblindness and colorblind racism, whites transferred this into pretending as though "I don't see race." I have heard whites say things like "I don't even notice your race...you're kind of white like me." Uh...no, bitch, do not turn me into a white person to make yourself feel more comfortable and don't equate "race and ethnicity" with "racism". They are not synonymous. Although inequalities are durable as long as there are differences across people, that doesn't mean that we need to be ashamed and afraid of certain differences. These are cultural rather than biological but they are still "real." Things do not stop being "real" just because humans created them in our social world.

Thank you for this. White people are afraid of "culture." In many ways we think we have no culture and traditions, but they are those mainstream traditions foisted on everyone else. Seeing someone with cultural differences is scary to people who have lived in a bubble surrounded by others who practice the same cultural norms as them. Trying to make everyone the same isn't the answer. Embracing the idea that everyone has their own traditions and they still love their children as much you do, love America as much as you do, are as intellectually competent as you are while holding to that culture and tradition is what is needed. At least that is my view from witnessing the insular world of the South for 37 years and the Southwest for 3 years.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Thank you for this. White people are afraid of "culture." In many ways we think we have no culture and traditions, but they are those mainstream traditions foisted on everyone else. Seeing someone with cultural differences is scary to people who have lived in a bubble surrounded by others who practice the same cultural norms as them. Trying to make everyone the same isn't the answer. Embracing the idea that everyone has their own traditions and they still love their children as much you do, love America as much as you do, are as intellectually competent as you are while holding to that culture and tradition is what is needed. At least that is my view from witnessing the insular world of the South for 37 years and the Southwest for 3 years.

I think this is absolutely spot on. It's a matter of realizing what we have in common as humans while respecting and understanding the differences of our heritages.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

It's a matter of realizing what we have in common as humans while respecting and understanding the differences of our heritages.

Kumbaya Kola is sugary and nasty.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Kumbaya Kola is sugary and nasty.

I guess I don't see it in a Kumbaya way. I love my family. So do people from other backgrounds. I celebrate Christmas. Some people of other backgrounds do. Others do not. I'm not going to hate them because of it. I honestly believe our differences are interesting and enjoy finding out about other cultures. At the end of the day, I do believe that people find it easier to relate to others when they bear similarities in mind, but then again, that has more to do with individual relationships than racism.

Hell. I give up. I'll just go back to reading.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I guess I don't see it in a Kumbaya way. I love my family. So do people from other backgrounds. I celebrate Christmas. Some people of other backgrounds do. Others do not. I'm not going to hate them because of it. I honestly believe our differences are interesting and enjoy finding out about other cultures. At the end of the day, I do believe that people find it easier to relate to others when they bear similarities in mind, but then again, that has more to do with individual relationships than racism.

Hell. I give up. I'll just go back to reading.

LOL. Hello, amIblue?, it is so nice to meet you. I am DrPhil and my posts are not always a response to you as an individual. You, as an individual, do not see it as Kumbaya but there are 7 billion people in the world, many of whom do see it as Kumbaya. They believe that if everyone could celebrate humanity and wave their hands at the differences across groups of people (including researching the topic, attending diversity trainings, and attending cultural events like a Hispanic Heritage Festival), things would be fine. That did not work thousands of years ago and that does not work in 2013. The power dynamics and power differentials remain the same.

Originally Posted by thetalady

It has been such a lovely, peaceful 10 months.... guess nothing is forever.

Why is this your first post in this thread?