We're all Number 1! Is 21 Valedictorians too many?

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I was salutatorian. How will I ever recover?

Remember when only male students were named high school valedictorian? In the 1960's my aunt raised two (male) valedictorians and two (female) salutatorians; they all attended/graduated same undergrad college with the men eventually working as lawyers and the women, teachers.

Our high school graduation program listed top 25 members of graduating class with asterisk(s) next to their names. It was common knowledge who was actually ranked number one (of 1075 class members) because the school had our rank list available after each quarter ended, and you were allowed to inquire of anyone's rank.

We had sets of numeric/weighed grade rankings, with an "A" in Advanced Placement courses earning 5 points but an "A" in Regular courses earning 4 points. The tougher a course, the higher the numeric weight of the grade earned toward GPA. Our smarties had GPAs above 4.0 due to this system.

The school occasionally pictured top 10/top 25 students in yearbooks and school/local newspapers.

As to becoming a student speaker at graduation, we had to submit speeches in advance to a coalition of teachers/admins for reading/approval. Our valedictorian did not speak (I believe she had more important, scholastic things to accomplish), but two of three chosen speakers were among top 25 students.

[Munchkin03]

15 years ago, my HS class eliminated valedictorians and just did summa, magna, and cum laude. My school is considerably more competitive now than it was when I graduated, and the threshold for each designation is super high. Kids take summer classes at the local college to boost their gpa. No such things as gut classes anymore!

So, while it's cute to moan about "everyone gets a trophy" and grade inflation, that's not true for a lot of schools. If anything, the kids are more ruthless and competitive because there are a lot of kids competing for a decreasing number of resources.

[sweetongreek]

I graduate Cum Laude at my high school, but we also had Valedictorian and Salutatorian. Our high school did not have weighted GPA (so the max was a 4.0) and only one graduate my four years actually had a perfect 4.0. Because of this there was rarely a tie for Valedictorian, but I think in the past there have been a few instances of ties and they've broken the tie based on courses taken (ex: taking more AP classes/honors classes, etc.). You also could only graduate Cum Laude/Valedictorian/Salutatorian if you were taking challenging courses--multiple AP classes, honors projects. Graduating multiple Valedictorians to me just screams "grade inflation". So I'm much more proud of my 3.75 unweighted compared to high schools graduating kids with 4.5s who got to take college courses.

[adpiucf]

I think it is all a bit ridiculous that everyone wins just for showing up. That isn't how it is in the real world, and it sets young people up for inability to cope later when they don't "win."

For example, my friend's elementary school aged-kids were showing off their gymnastics "medals" recently. But in reality, they were "medals" for participating in an end of season showcase. I'm glad the kids are jazzed about gymnastics, but they didn't earn a medal; their parents paid for them to participate in a recital.

[lilykkg]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

We had sets of numeric/weighed grade rankings, with an "A" in Advanced Placement courses earning 5 points but an "A" in Regular courses earning 4 points. The tougher a course, the higher the numeric weight of the grade earned toward GPA. Our smarties had GPAs above 4.0 due to this system.

My high school did/does this. The valedictorian almost always was a student taking many AP courses. I don't think there has ever been more than one person as valedictorian, but then again, when I graduated from high school, the school was only about 10 years old.

Since there were a lot of students with really high GPAs, they were given ropes or stoles depending on where their GPA fell on a scale.

[lovespink88]

Came to this thread expecting to see my generation ripped a new one about how we're lazy, think we're entitled, spoiled, etc. etc. blah blah blah. Was pleasantly surprised at the comments and agree with most everything I saw.

Originally Posted by adpiucf

I think it is all a bit ridiculous that everyone wins just for showing up. That isn't how it is in the real world, and it sets young people up for inability to cope later when they don't "win."

For example, my friend's elementary school aged-kids were showing off their gymnastics "medals" recently. But in reality, they were "medals" for participating in an end of season showcase. I'm glad the kids are jazzed about gymnastics, but they didn't earn a medal; their parents paid for them to participate in a recital.

That is ridiculous. I wonder why the adults in charge would allow that

I realize that by now I am probably closer in age to said adults, but this argument always bothers me. When everyone on my t-ball team got trophies, it's not like we asked or expected them for them!?! I didn't know what a damn trophy was until it was handed to me. If you're (hypothetical you, not you adpiucf) blaming the parents, fine, but I have definitely read arguments where the blame gets placed on the kids. When you're 5, it's not like you have control of that...

And of course this goes for any accolades, not just literally trophies, lol

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

This is what many schools are beginning to adopt. The speakers are chosen by either the student body or by tryouts. Colored cords or stoles are given to the students earning those three distinctions with each color corresponding to a certain level.

I actually kind of like that idea! (also the idea of Summa, Magna or Cum Laude)

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by lovespink88

That is ridiculous. I wonder why the adults in charge would allow that

I realize that by now I am probably closer in age to said adults, but this argument always bothers me. When everyone on my t-ball team got trophies, it's not like we asked or expected them for them!?! I didn't know what a damn trophy was until it was handed to me. If you're (hypothetical you, not you adpiucf) blaming the parents, fine, but I have definitely read arguments where the blame gets placed on the kids. When you're 5, it's not like you have control of that...

And of course this goes for any accolades, not just literally trophies, lol

I've always felt that it was just probably a few parents who threatened to sue the school, little league, dance team, and any thing else their kid was into if their kid was not the winner.

I think the coaches, advisors and sponsors of these groups just gave in to prevent being sued.

So, I don't think all parents are "guilty" of ensuring their precious snowflake is always the winner.

[AGDee]

In my class (1983) of 713, we had summa, magna and cum laude. The top 10 ranked kids represented 3 GPAs. We didn't have AP classes, but we had an accelerated math program that began in 8th grade. If you didn't start it in 8th grade, you couldn't get into it later. We had to test into it and have a math teacher recommendation. Those 3 high school courses (High school was 10-12th grade only) were graded on a 5 point scale. 4 kids shared the #1 rank with As in every course, 5 kids shared the #5 rank with all As and an A- in an accelerated math class (alll in Calculus), the rest of us were at #10 with all As and a B+ in ... Calculus.

My kids school still does Val/Sal. There are usually around 250 graduates. Six AP classes are offered which are scored on a 5.0 scale. The Val is always someone who takes all 6 and gets straight As. Last year, there were 3, but there is usually 1 or 2. This year there was only one and next year it looks like there will be only one. Right now, Halostar (son of AGDee) is ranked 2nd so if he can keep with all As, he'll be Sal.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I've always felt that it was just probably a few parents who threatened to sue the school, little league, dance team, and any thing else their kid was into if their kid was not the winner.

I think the coaches, advisors and sponsors of these groups just gave in to prevent being sued.

I don't think lawyers and the threat of (frivolous) lawsuits are to be blamed for this one. It comes from a well-intentioned but completely mistaken belief that not being a "winner" damages healthy self-esteem.

[lovespink88]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So, I don't think all parents are "guilty" of ensuring their precious snowflake is always the winner.

Oh totally agree!

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think lawyers and the threat of (frivolous) lawsuits are to be blamed for this one. It comes from a well-intentioned but completely mistaken belief that not being a "winner" damages healthy self-esteem.

With this one too!

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I had just over 900 students in my senior class, and we still only had one valedictorian.

I graduated with 1300 on a 5.0 scale and we still only one valedictorian.

I don't understand why more than one person needs that title. Understand, you may have graduated 5th in your class, and that's damn good accomplishment, but you weren't #1. You're not any less special, talented, smart, or anything else just because you didn't get a speech and a fancy title.

Screw this everyone wins bull.

[honeychile]

Frankly, I think this whole "everybody is a winner" philosophy robs people of the chance to learn how to win graciously. IMHO, it's the better lesson to learn in life.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

I graduated with 1300 on a 5.0 scale and we still only one valedictorian.

I don't understand why more than one person needs that title. Understand, you may have graduated 5th in your class, and that's damn good accomplishment, but you weren't #1. You're not any less special, talented, smart, or anything else just because you didn't get a speech and a fancy title.

Screw this everyone wins bull.

Yep.

I wonder how that would work in Texas, with the "valedictorian scholarships" that are (or were?) given out.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Yep.

I wonder how that would work in Texas, with the "valedictorian scholarships" that are (or were?) given out.

Those schools would be poor af with 300 valedictorians. lol

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Frankly, I think this whole "everybody is a winner" philosophy robs people of the chance to learn how to win graciously. IMHO, it's the better lesson to learn in life.

It robs people of the chance to win, period.

When everyone is the best, then no one is. Imagine if 4 teams won the Superbowl each year.. or if 3 men won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor.. or if 10 contestants were crowned "The new American Idol"... Winning would ultimately lose it's value.

I'd rather be ranked #25 in my graduating class than have to share the title of "the best" with potentially dozens of other people.