Pope of Rome to Step Down

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

So long as the North American is of another decent other than "white guy"...I'll support it! Would love either the African or South American you've heard about.

I get what you're going for, but I think it's a bit narrow. It reminds me of when we look at the Bid Day Pictures thread and say how "diverse" groups are when their chapters have two or three women of color. Diversity encompasses much more than that, and quite frankly a person of color in the papacy will not likely mean much change in inclusivity in the Church. It's one of many factors, and I wouldn't be a "one issue voter" on that one.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I get what you're going for, but I think it's a bit narrow. It reminds me of when we look at the Bid Day Pictures thread and say how "diverse" groups are when their chapters have two or three women of color. Diversity encompasses much more than that, and quite frankly a person of color in the papacy will not likely mean much change in inclusivity in the Church. It's one of many factors, and I wouldn't be a "one issue voter" on that one.

The difference in the diversity you mention and diversity in the Catholic church is Catholics as a group are not Western European and haven't been for a very long time. Catholicism is biggest where education is smallest, and currently that's Africa.

And my understanding of the infallibility of the pope is that never in history before JPII did any pope EVER admit to being ill because the pope, being infallible, can't get sick. So he's fine, he's fine, he's fine, he's dead. I will gladly surrender that belief if I was told wrong. It is just one of very many things that made me throw religion in general and Catholicism in particular in the same pile with the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny.

[HQWest]

But look at it this way - he gets to help pick his successor, which arguably no pope has really had control over in 600 years.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

And my understanding of the infallibility of the pope is that never in history before JPII did any pope EVER admit to being ill because the pope, being infallible, can't get sick. So he's fine, he's fine, he's fine, he's dead. I will gladly surrender that belief if I was told wrong.

I'm afraid you were told wrong. That sounds like the mixed-up idea of some overly pious (and superstitious) Catholic or of some virulently anti-Catholic Protestant. Either way, it's wrong. Infallible means trustworthy or without error.

Per Benedict XVI: "The Pope is not an oracle; he is infallible in very rare situations, as we know."

And per John XXIII: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible."

FWIW, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm Presbyterian, not Catholic, and I don't accept the doctrines of the Petrine primacy or of papal infallibility. That said, I have a great deal of respect for the Bishop of Rome -- both the office and the holder of that office -- and the ministry of unity he can exercise.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I get what you're going for, but I think it's a bit narrow. It reminds me of when we look at the Bid Day Pictures thread and say how "diverse" groups are when their chapters have two or three women of color.

To use your example...But when the president of the chapter is "of color" I think that makes a bigger statement than one or two faces in a group photo.

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Diversity encompasses much more than that, and quite frankly a person of color in the papacy will not likely mean much change in inclusivity in the Church. It's one of many factors, and I wouldn't be a "one issue voter" on that one.

Do you think the Church is exclusive to certain races?

I maintain my very strong desire for a Pope of either African or Hispanic decent.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

To use your example...But when the president of the chapter is "of color" I think that makes a bigger statement than one or two faces in a group photo.



Do you think the Church is exclusive to certain races?

I maintain my very strong desire for a Pope of either African or Hispanic decent.

Well, let's hope it's not an indecent person of whatever race.

Personally, I hope for the Holy Spirit to guide the cardinals to elect the man who is best able to lead all Catholics of all races.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Well, let's hope it's not an indecent person of whatever race.

Personally, I hope for the Holy Spirit to guide the cardinals to elect the man who is best able to lead all Catholics of whatever race.

Cosign to both!

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

The difference in the diversity you mention and diversity in the Catholic church is Catholics as a group are not Western European and haven't been for a very long time. Catholicism is biggest where education is smallest, and currently that's Africa.

Fair point. What I mean by that example is that it's very easy to see color and say, "Diversity!" when it's really much more complex than simply that.

Originally Posted by shirley1929

To use your example...But when the president of the chapter is "of color" I think that makes a bigger statement than one or two faces in a group photo.

Do you think the Church is exclusive to certain races?

I maintain my very strong desire for a Pope of either African or Hispanic decent.

To your first point, I suppose it does make a stronger statement, but being non-white does not automatically qualify one to be the next pope.

I'm troubled that you would suggest I think the Church is exclusive to certain races. I simply believe that there are many factors, and relying solely on race would be an oversimplified view of the matter.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Well, let's hope it's not an indecent person of whatever race.

Personally, I hope for the Holy Spirit to guide the cardinals to elect the man who is best able to lead all Catholics of all races.

This is what I was getting at.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

I echo MC (thank you!), ditto to Belle. I've also never been a fan of Bene16. I'm a JP2 fan all the way. Hard to measure up to him.

My personal favorite is Cardinal Bergoglio from Argentina.

I do not support a North American Cardinal at this time.

I appreciated this article today. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...er-had-chance/


"And with your spirit" has been a pain in the ass for me to remember, even a year after the change. (And it wasn't Bene16 changing things, it was an implementation of the correct Latin translations.)

I don't go to church often, but when I do, I refuse to say "And with your spirit". I'm all for change, but "And also with you" is plain ol stuck in my head.