#RacistRager - Duke Kappa Sigma party ignites firestorm of criticism

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

the thought behind it, and the behavior accompanying it is what decides if it's mocking.

and the intent of the thought behind the party was to mock. and your examples are not really applicable or even comparable to this situation. wearing something you like that happens to be from another culture isn't the same thing as wearing something from another culture to mock said other culture.

[Gamma Xi Phi]

I'm not so certain why this is so hard to comprehend.

[Tulip86]

Originally Posted by starang21

and the intent of the thought behind the party was to mock. and your examples are not really applicable or even comparable to this situation. wearing something you like that happens to be from another culture isn't the same thing as wearing something from another culture to mock said other culture.

I disagree with you. I think the intent behind the email is to mock and to ridicule.
I don't think the intent of everyone attending was to mock and ridicule. But I get that you don't want to see my point.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

I disagree with you. I think the intent behind the email is to mock and to ridicule.
I don't think the intent of everyone attending was to mock and ridicule. But I get that you don't want to see my point.

i don't care if you agree or not. i see your point, and your point is silly and not applicable to the situation at hand. i didn't say the intent of everyone at the party was the mock and ridicule, i said the intent of the party itself was to mock and ridicule. some party goers may have not even took part in the dressing up. but the ones who did, did with the intent to mock and ridicule.

unless you think that they dressed up as a caricature to celebrate asian month or something like that.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Gamma Xi Phi

I'm not so certain why this is so hard to comprehend.

because some people aren't socially conscious.

[Gamma Xi Phi]

The first problem is when the men in the chapter felt it was okay to appropriate [an]other culture[s] as a theme for a party.

At colleges and universities as large and diverse as Duke, there are already organizations and programs which are open to everyone to participate in if they want to experience playing "dress up." I went to a school where a South Asian festival which began ten years ago had all South Asian performing groups, then expanded to including an act for "friends of" and now is almost totally integrated. [We can discuss why that is problematic another time.]

But a majority white, non-multicultural (as in NMGC) fraternity doing this is problem. It smacks of white privilege. It is racist. And thankfully organizations at Duke like NPHC are standing with the Asian community as allies in this matter.

[Tulip86]

Originally Posted by starang21

i don't care if you agree or not. i see your point, and your point is silly and not applicable to the situation at hand. i didn't say the intent of everyone at the party was the mock and ridicule, i said the intent of the party itself was to mock and ridicule. some party goers may have not even took part in the dressing up. but the ones who did, did with the intent to mock and ridicule.

unless you think that they dressed up as a caricature to celebrate asian month or something like that.

Taking my comments out of context and ridiculing them is not helping the conversation. But you got what you wanted. I'm out, because if having an open conversation on a subject as this makes you want to call someone on the internet who you haven't met and who's background you don't know, silly and not socially conscious this tells me that you're not interested in anyone else's opinion.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

Taking my comments out of context and ridiculing them is not helping the conversation. But you got what you wanted. I'm out, because if having an open conversation on a subject as this makes you want to call someone on the internet who you haven't met and who's background you don't know (of Asian descent FYI) silly and not socially conscious this tells me that you're not interested in anyone else's opinion.

i didn't call you silly. i called your opinion silly and inapplicable. but IMO, from your posts that you're not socially conscious. you're making excuses and deflecting for a group of predominantly white men and women to run around dressing up as geishas and sumo wrestlers and saying things like herro as if somehow that's a cool thing to do.

but yay, asian month. too bad we're three months early. they should have done it in may for more effect. i wonder if the local asian american association was cool with it. wait, they weren't.

[Kevin]

"Socially conscious" = blowing any slight to your heritage WAY out of proportion?

The notion Asian Student Association at Duke somehow gets cultural approval over other organizations is just absurd. To seemingly believe that they actually speak for all Asians at Duke is just about as bad as anything Kappa Sig did. I'm sure many Asians would be offended to be remotely associated with these over the top protests.

Am I suggesting they be silent? Not really. Maybe send a letter to the editor of the student newspaper, maybe hold an event promoting awareness, whatever. But day after day of protest? Demanding the offending organization be disbanded? I'm just saying there's a more moderate and reasonable course here.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

"Socially conscious" = blowing any slight to your heritage WAY out of proportion?

The notion Asian Student Association at Duke somehow gets cultural approval over other organizations is just absurd. To seemingly believe that they actually speak for all Asians at Duke is just about as bad as anything Kappa Sig did. I'm sure many Asians would be offended to be remotely associated with these over the top protests.

Am I suggesting they be silent? Not really. Maybe send a letter to the editor of the student newspaper, maybe hold an event promoting awareness, whatever. But day after day of protest? Demanding the offending organization be disbanded? I'm just saying there's a more moderate and reasonable course here.

I think context is important here. We're seeing a lot of incidents like this coming from the Duke Greek system. I could see where they'd be sick and f*cking tired of explaining racism to white people.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think context is important here. We're seeing a lot of incidents like this coming from the Duke Greek system. I could see where they'd be sick and f*cking tired of explaining racism to white people.

Or maybe minority students get to blow things out of proportion due to the University's harsh and unfair handling of incidents regarding alleged racism tends to reward the accusers even when they're wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

And when I want to think about oppressed minorities, Asian students attending one of the top universities in the country are not near the top of my list. Further, if you're saying the enhanced reaction to this was because of the actions of other students, is it fair to victimize Kappa Sigma for those other students' actions?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Or maybe minority students get to blow things out of proportion due to the University's harsh and unfair handling of incidents regarding alleged racism tends to reward the accusers even when they're wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

And when I want to think about oppressed minorities, Asian students attending one of the top universities in the country are not near the top of my list. Further, if you're saying the enhanced reaction to this was because of the actions of other students, is it fair to victimize Kappa Sigma for those other students' actions?

Protip: white people do not get to tell people of color what's offensive.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think context is important here. We're seeing a lot of incidents like this coming from the Duke Greek system. I could see where they'd be sick and f*cking tired of explaining racism to white people.

Exactly. And like I said upthread, the chapter should have seen this kind of reaction coming a mile away.

Whether one thinks the party was horribly offensive or just a stupid, insensitive idea, or whether one thinks those who have protested have over-reacted or are fully justified, anyone familiar with Duke campus culture should have been able to predict how this would play out. The idea that the chapter president issued a statement that said "Upon learning of the deeply damaging effects of our email to our fellow students, we should have completely canceled the aforementioned party," is mind-boggling to me. Yes, they should have canceled the party, but if they're smart enough to get into Duke, they're smart enough to figure out how the party and the email would be perceived by the campus community at large without having to "learn it" after the fact.

They should also be smart enough to anticipate how the whole thing would go over with Kappa Sig HQ and with Duke, especially since they just got their charter back last year after 10 years as an off-campus local. You'd think that even if sensitivity towards other students wasn't a concern for them, self-interest and self-preservation would have been.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Protip: white people do not get to tell people of color what's offensive.

I honestly think that comments like this are just as damaging as any thing like this party. It helps build a us against them mentality that gets in teh way of true equality. Like I think was said, nobody would get upset with minorities making fun of negative Caucasian stereotypes, yet you have stuff like this, which while I agree was insensitive and in poor taste, probably does not deserve the amount of outrage that it is receiving.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I honestly think that comments like this are just as damaging as any thing like this party. It helps build a us against them mentality that gets in teh way of true equality. Like I think was said, nobody would get upset with minorities making fun of negative Caucasian stereotypes, yet you have stuff like this, which while I agree was insensitive and in poor taste, probably does not deserve the amount of outrage that it is receiving.